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Old 06-20-2013, 05:09 PM
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ZF5 in a 99 4x4 - am i crazy?

ok, just got off the phone with a motivated craigslist seller of a 99 F350 4x4. the price is better than I've found for the mileage (OBS or SD), but its got a darn automatic trans in it.

as I had my E4OD to ZF5 swap all lined up and ready to go before my wife decided we needed a crew cab instead of my extended cab, I've been looking for a manual trans 7.3L crew cab, but they're few and far between in OBS and more so in SD. the price on this one is good enough that i'd do the work needed to make it awesome - i.e. manual.

that said, i'm thinking of just throwing the zf5 that I already have in it if I can't readily find a zf6. anyone ever heard of/done this? my biggest concern is the transfer case. I think I recall the zf6 having a bigger output shaft than ours such that the new t-case wouldn't mate up right. I guess I could put an t-case in, but then i'm looking at custom driveshafts - though that'd be the case anyway, I assume since the zf5 is shorter than the zf6 and the SD auto trans - I assume.

of course, i'd need new pedals (after just rebuilding my OBS junk yard set), tranny crossmember and prob a bunch of other stuff. but i'm seriously considering it - am I crazy? well, yes, but am I crazy about this particular issue? :-)
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96 F250 SCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - RED (RIP - the part out has begun)
97 F350 CCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - WHITE (361k mi - DD, auto->ZF5, 3.55LS, 6637, 3"DP->StraightPipe, 33x12.5x16.5's, object of more upgrades)
97 F250 RCLB 2WD 5.8L gas - BLUE (ZF5, 3.55, distant-future-project-truck - 235k mi)
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:14 PM
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The SDs have the 4R100 auto in them. I think it's a better trans than the E4OD. If the price is good enough, just run the auto.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:19 PM
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but I've sworn off auto forever! call me old-fashioned, but I want to tell my vehicle what gear to be in!

and I've listened to my neighbor with a newer F250 tell me how the 4r100 is the greatest transmission ever for like 3 years now, so I've heard all about its virtues.

I thought "Bill my middle name is ZF swap" would be on my side on this one... but as usual - I appreciate the input.

now, lets step forward. whether it is a good decision or not, anyone have any idea of what else i'd need to do the work? :-)
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96 F250 SCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - RED (RIP - the part out has begun)
97 F350 CCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - WHITE (361k mi - DD, auto->ZF5, 3.55LS, 6637, 3"DP->StraightPipe, 33x12.5x16.5's, object of more upgrades)
97 F250 RCLB 2WD 5.8L gas - BLUE (ZF5, 3.55, distant-future-project-truck - 235k mi)
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:27 PM
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Oh I'm on your side, I don't care for autos either! LOL! The only one I ever had that I liked was the Torq-Shift in a '03 SD that I bought new. If I could have that auto in an OBS, I'd do it. As far as a ZF5 in a SD, I would run the auto until I could find a donor SD and do the ZF6 and sell the ZF5 stuff you have. That's what I meant to say
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'95 F350 CCLB 4x4 dually,ZF 5spd,4.10,Rosewood Stage 2s,T500,S366,IC,Tony Wildman tunes,e-fuel,6637,CCV mod,3.5" DP,Diamond Eye 5" exhaust,Valair clutch,IH water pump,Scangauge,GlowShift gauges
'92 F350 CCLB 4x4,ZF 5spd,4.10,460 gas to PSD conversion project truck
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:01 PM
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The real early e99 had a zf5 from the factory
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:15 PM
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I think you would be the only one to know. Don't you have a t case for the 5? Find some steel and weld up a cross member. From the looks of the gear ratios the 5 will work better for a daily driver than a 6. Good luck with the project.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:53 AM
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A buddy was just telling me about doing this on one of his buddys trucks. Used a SD mas ter cylinder and an obs slave. Said it was a pain to bleed but he got it going.

AFAIK the 4r100 isn't much different from the e40d
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:45 AM
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Put the 5 in the obs for your truck and use the sd for family use...
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordman67 View Post
Put the 5 in the obs for your truck and use the sd for family use...
i'd love to, but my current truck will have to go if I get this other one - we can handle a few $k swing for the newer truck, but not the full purchase price of the new truck.

but I definitely agree with you guys - my plan would be to [begrudgingly] drive the thing for a while as is, scouring the local yards and craigslist for a ZF6, and do the swap that way if I can find one reasonably priced. if I can't find one in a reasonable amount if time, in goes the ZF5 and i'll be happy.

it just sucks that i'm so close to having my current truck converted to manual and now I get to start all over - I guess that's what marriage is all about, though, right?!?
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96 F250 SCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - RED (RIP - the part out has begun)
97 F350 CCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - WHITE (361k mi - DD, auto->ZF5, 3.55LS, 6637, 3"DP->StraightPipe, 33x12.5x16.5's, object of more upgrades)
97 F250 RCLB 2WD 5.8L gas - BLUE (ZF5, 3.55, distant-future-project-truck - 235k mi)
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:13 AM
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Nope. Won't work at all. You'll have to get the ZF6 for the SD, but I will take that ZF5 stuff off your hands so it isn't in the way.

In all seriousness, I would think it would be easier to just sell the ZF5 "kit" and buy the parts to do a ZF6 swap. Then it would all be there like it was supposed to be and you don't have a hard time finding the parts to make it into what you want.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:19 AM
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yeah, I agree nate. that's the route i'd probably go. I was kind of hoping to avoid all the searching and wrenching in the mud at junkyards, but I should just do it right and lessen the hassle of customizing parts for the install and risk screwing something up in the long-run.

ok, off to scour craigslist for a manual trans truck in my price/mileage range before I pull the trigger on this 'close, but not quite configuration'...
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96 F250 SCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - RED (RIP - the part out has begun)
97 F350 CCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - WHITE (361k mi - DD, auto->ZF5, 3.55LS, 6637, 3"DP->StraightPipe, 33x12.5x16.5's, object of more upgrades)
97 F250 RCLB 2WD 5.8L gas - BLUE (ZF5, 3.55, distant-future-project-truck - 235k mi)
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:21 PM
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This is not a crazy idea, as its the one I am in the process of now! My 94 has been a mix of all sorts, LOL! Originally it started out as a 2wd 5.8 gasser, which by the time I was finished with the first round, was a 7.3 PS 4wd. Problem being I used the E40D from the donor. Needless to say, it lasted 90 miles, and i had my fill with auto's! Never again!

So after looking at options, I thought about the ZF-5, but was more interested in the ZF-6, especially with the towing I do. Thankfully I did come across a part out here on a SD, and got things lined up.

Anytime a swap or modification is needed, some will go for it, and some won't, so its a matter of what you are willing and interested in doing. Myself, very much worth it.

I researched a lot before I took the task, to make sure everything comes together nicely, just as I did with the PS swap. Some things that I discovered that need to be addressed when swapping out a ZF-5 to a Zf-6, are of course the drivelines. Not a big issue as long as you have both sets, and can take them to a custom driveline shop. I did this before with the original swap I did from 2wd to 4wd on my dually. It ran me about $200 for them to be modified and balanced. (I lucked out as with my ZF-6 swap, I sold a horse to the owner of the machine shop out here, and getting a break for the next adventure, LOL).

You will need the engine plate adapter from a SD if you are putting a ZF-6 on an OBS. the thickness is thinner on the SD models, which allow the pilot bearing to come into contact with the transmission input shaft. IRC, I think the pilot bearing may need to be swapped out as well, but will know more in as I get there.

The transmission hump cover will also need to be modified as you will need to make it taller for the ZF-6 (taller transmission then the ZF-5).

Wiring.. somewhere I have both schematics, and you will want the ZF-5 and ZF-6 transmission wiring harness. They are two different plugs, and need to be matched up and wired to swap over to the OBS PCM. It is fairly simple and take only a few minutes.

The transmission cross member is no biggy. Once you get the ZF-6 installed, take your measurements and fab up a nice healthy new one! It should be fairly inexpensive too!

Now if swapping out an auto to manual set up, there are some more goodies needed, but its not unreasonable to get done. This is where I am at, and the parts list is a little longer, but you can actually forage many of those parts from various other F-series trucks! (clutch pedal assembly, clutch res, lines, column, gauges optional, and so on).

I say go for it!!!
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordpride View Post
The real early e99 had a zf5 from the factory
Based on this information, I would hypothesize that it shouldn't be challenging at all to do a ZF5 swap into a Super Duty.
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:08 PM
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My buddies dad has a e99 f350 that came from the factory with a zf5. He's the original owner
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:02 AM
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Midwest - I tend to share your philosophy with these sort of things. pretty much anything is possible given enough time, money and access to machine shop equipment and welding. and you can even potentially minimize one or two of those elements by maximizing another - which is what i'd try to do here - minimize cost, but spend lots of time and effort making things work.

for now, though, its a moot point.

the deal that was by far better than others out there was, indeed, too good to be true. it was a 99 F-350 dually with 170k mi. I worked the guy down from 11500 to 8700 on the phone, then drove the 2 hours to see it. him willing to drop that much off the bat was not a good sign to begin with, but I had to at least check it out.

as soon as I get there, he hands me a sheet of paper from a local mechanic detailing all the work done to the truck one week ago - totaling $2000 worth of work.

so, that was where my inspection began - I went about verifying the quality of the work done. easiest thing to check was the replaced driveshaft carrier bearing. I crawl under the truck to see a rustier bearing than the factory original that's on my 96. other things on the list are various front and rear end bearings and seals. I couldn't find a single nut or bolt with a head that had a wrench on it any time recently.

seeing that either he or his mechanic had fabricated at least some items on his list - plus a rusty and significantly weeping oil pan, I said, "thanks but no thanks and good luck with the sale." what I really wanted to say was "you're a crook and I hope you wind up losing money on this truck that you're obviously just trying to flip"

...the search goes on...
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96 F250 SCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - RED (RIP - the part out has begun)
97 F350 CCLB 4x4 7.3L PSD - WHITE (361k mi - DD, auto->ZF5, 3.55LS, 6637, 3"DP->StraightPipe, 33x12.5x16.5's, object of more upgrades)
97 F250 RCLB 2WD 5.8L gas - BLUE (ZF5, 3.55, distant-future-project-truck - 235k mi)
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:02 AM
 
 
 
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