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Old 06-02-2013, 08:03 PM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Smile 66 F600 project, way out of my league here.

Hopefully I am in the right forum, I have no clue what the tonnage of a truck like this is considered.

For various reasons I may end up with a 1966 F600 with 13960 miles for $500. I am told it is fully functional and driveable though I haven't had time for more than a walk around in the neighbors field and the battery was dead.

I have pictures uploaded to a photobucket account including the door data plate.
EDIT: Deleted pics.

It has a PTO powered hydraulic dump bed. Engine seems to be a larger truck version of the standard 300 I-6. The transmission is apparently a 5 speed with the 5th being overdrive (according to the shift ****) which I didn't know they had back then, I have no idea what actual model it is or whether or not it is synchronized. The rear axle is huge, no clue what model there either. It has too many sticks on the floor, I have a hunch the one with the safety button is for a high/low range and the one that moves forward and backwards is for the dump bed. I am guessing the big white pull lever on the dash that says Muncie is for engaging the PTO so I would guess this is a Muncie transmission.
The only problems I can find is the ignition switch was half assed replaced with an incorrect one to get it running though the original parts are still there, windshield is damaged enough that it should probably be replaced eventually, rust holes on rear corners of cab and various places involving the front fenders though its all fixable and fairly normal for a Twin Cities DSO truck that spent all 47 years up here as a farm truck. Everything seems to leak some, and the hydraulic ram for the bed appears to leak a lot. The interior is rather trashed and the windows all leak which i think has rusted the door bottom some. The rear corner of the dump bed is bent up, the rear bed frame rail on that side is a little bent too but it doesn't appear to have bent the pivot for the bed at all.

It is actually being purchased by my step father to move several loads of gravel and rock though I can tell already I will end up doing most all the work on it and eventually owning it.
I like the truck due to its vintage look a bit more than I should and I fear I may treat it as a project rather than a farm truck and try to over fix it up, what can anyone tell me about this truck and opinions on how easy they are to "restore".
Perhaps I should just go for a get it running and leave it at that, I assume this is a really common truck options and size wise right?
EDIT: I am going to have to go through the weigh stations with this thing when they are open aren't I. What does this weigh when empty, 20k lbs gvw cant be the truck weight, so what part is truck and what part is cargo capacity?
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:36 AM
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Pretty much everything on the cab is the same as the pick up so body wise, you have a lot available from the usual resto companies. I have seen a new fender on ebay for your truck.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:47 AM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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The 300 should be an HD model, different exhaust manifold, forged crank, not a lot else different. Same "size".

The stick with the button on top is the parking/emergency brake.

PTO operated lifts use two levers. One engages the PTO to run the pump. The other operates the valve to send pressure to the ram(s), to raise the bed, and then to let that pressure off so the bed will lower.

I doubt it's a Muncie trans. Probably a Clark. Run it through the gears. Maybe it is an OD. Maybe it's a 4 speed with a 5 speed ****.

As for tonnage, an F600 is, I suppose, a "2 ton". GVWR might be around 16-17,000 lbs.

My dad had a '58 and he loaded a lot more than that on it from time to time. I think he had it licensed for 24,000. I can tell you 24,000 is way too much BTW.

Expect to have to go through the brakes, or your might be going through something else.

Good luck with it.

As for 13960 miles, add 100,000 or maybe double to that.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:03 PM
OldNumberCruncher OldNumberCruncher is offline
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F600 decode

Looking at your warranty plate photo - 300 cu. in. six , built in Kansas City, either a 5 speed overdrive Clark 250V or a 5 speed overdrive Dana (Spicer) 6453_A , the rear axle should be a Timken 15,000 lb. with a 6.8/1 ratio.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:03 PM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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It is a 20k GVW F600. Normally I would assume it was 113k miles but it spent its whole life on a farm in small rural Wisconsin, not in commercial service. You have to go round and round on a farm and to the market a whole lot of times to even get 13960 miles. Either way the mileage is acceptable to me.

I'll post more when I get a real inspection instead of just walking around it non running. Hopefully numberdummy will chime in too. The whole vin is F60BK802378 if he does which was the only info I didn't post off it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:01 AM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Trans probably a Clark based on the shift pattern:

The Transmission Page

Rear axle is probably an Eaton, too bad it's not a two speed.

Yes, you will have to hit the scales with it. (I missed the GVWR in your pics....)

Yes, they are fairly common. Trucks like this do not command the value of a pickup of the same year. Too expensive to operate and they have little "hobby" or "fun" or "cruise" appeal. However, the cabs are pretty much the same as the pickup cabs, so fixing things is made easier that way.

This would be a handy truck to have for gravel and other stuff. Take a minute and figure your weights so you don't overload it. Our neighbor had the guys keep piling on the gravel on his F600--he blew a rear tire and the other one, still inflated, was rim-on-the-ground like it was flat!! They took about 1/4 to 1/3 off it and put in my dad's '58 and my dad said "that's enough" for his truck. Guy was hard equipment....

Once you find out the make of the hoist, you can find a reseal kit on line.

Working on the hoist can be a real man killer--well, hell, it'll kill anyone--so if you have not worked on one before, beware. Serving suggestion: TWO supports when working under it. Maybe three.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:08 PM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Clark 5 spd OD looks right for both shift pattern and pictures of it.
Has a Muncie PTO stuck on the right side of it but I don't know who made the tilt ram it appears to be unlabeled.

I have decided to talk my father out of this venture, the thing is more of a restoration project level than anything and would take $1000 in 20" tires just to get the ball rolling. Really cool truck in that it is vintage, complete and basically fully functional, but only just barely.

If I had money the 1977 F350 Uhaul truck with the huge aluminum box with ramp sitting right in front of it however would be interesting I think to make into a camper/motorcycle hauler thing, but alas I am broke. I can post pics of that if anyone is interested, but that's rather a topic for another forum.
Actually the data tag turned out so weird that I will be starting another thread on that.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:45 PM
FBNengr FBNengr is offline
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Smile

Hey 52 F-1,

Sorry to disagree with you, but this truck is NOT way out of your league. They are really dirt-simple to work on. Cab and hood (and possibly the grille on this body style) are basically pickup truck items. LMC truck in Kansas City is one possible source for a lot of body parts. They have a great website - check 'em out. If you need a windshield, there's a fair chance that you still could get a new one through any auto glass dealer. NAPA carries a fair amount of replacement mechanical parts for these older medium-duty trucks. If you can work on a car or a pickup truck, then you can work on this.

With the bed and box that's on it, I am guessing it would weigh in somewhere around 8,000 Lbs., give or take a little. If the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is 20,000 Lbs., then you can haul a maximum load of approx. 12,000 Lbs. Or in other words, the GVWR minus the weight of the vehicle will be the total amount of the allowable load. Of course, that was when the truck was brand new, with new tires on it. Due to it's age however, I wouldn't try to pack that much weight on it nowadays.

My general rule of thumb is, if I can't drive it home, I don't want it. This truck looks halfway decent in your pictures. And if it truly is fully functional and drivable, for $500 it's not just worth it, it's a steal!

I dunno, my advice is to think a little more about it. If you talk your step father out of it now, you may come to regret it later. Especially when he decides to take you out to the woodshed just for talking him out of it to begin with!



Paul.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:59 PM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Its not really a repair knowledge issue since I can pick up the specifics on this truck easy enough, its a parts and availability knowledge. I have found nothing in this weight class (except some cab stuff as mentioned and maybe the 300 six engine) is sourced from the same places as what I am used to, and that's if its even still available. I am fine with sourcing up to F350 parts due to previous projects.

So giving it a second judgement the biggest thing about this truck that makes me think its more than is necessary is the fact that he doesn't intend to get into anything commercial or long term, this was just an interesting way to redo the whole driveway with gravel (rural length with major fill needed so several loads at least) and dump a load of larger rock on a river bank that is mucky and eroding. So the cost of the truck has to be less than what the cost of having it hauled would be for it to make financial sense which he said it was but I never verified.

From a non logical standpoint I love both vintage things and large equipment so I really want the freaking thing, but honestly how often does a truck with a bed that ridiculously high have a real use?

The biggest hit against the truck dollar wise is the tires, they are nearly bald to my eyes (no tread at all in center on some) and the fronts at least are weather cracked. They are not at all like car tires composition and tread wise and are tube tires, so I can't really assess their condition. I have been reading that these 20" tires are not the easiest tires to find and replace and its looking like it would double or triple the purchase price. I am making the assumption that because the rims look smooth and new they were replaced at some point and not just repainted as I read somewhere that the original (widow maker?) non lock ring rims or whatever that means are something nobody will touch.
The tires that are on it would probably work for this limited job, but the eventual bill for replacing them would make any future ownership on my part not worth the trouble. Basically (and selfishly) if I can't end up with the truck later on then he might as well just pay someone else to dump the gravel and rock since he doesn't really intend to own it long term.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:24 AM
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VIN/Warranty Plate codes taken from link in post 1 / 802378 serial number taken from post 5.

F60BK802378 / W.B. 156 / COLOR: A / MODEL: F602 / BODY: E81 / TRANS: K / AXLE: 64 / MAX GVWR LBS: 20000 / CERT NET HP: 150 / RPM: 3600 / DSO: 44

F60 = F600.

B = 300 1V I-6.

K = Kansas City MO Assembly Plant.

802378 = 1966, assembled January 1966.

156" Wheelbase.

A = Raven Black.

F602 = F600, 20,000 lbs. GVWR

E81: E = Red Crush Vinyl & Red Cody Pattern Woven Plastic / 81 = 81B Custom Cab.

K = Clark model 251VO 5 Speed Overdrive or Dana/Spicer model 6453-A 5 Speed Overdrive. K used in 1966 for both.

64 = Timken model F106N Single Speed Rear Axle / 6.80-1 / 15,000 lbs. Rear Axle Capacity.

20,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.

150 net HP @ 3,600 RPM

44 = Twin Cities MN Ford District Sales Office, where the original selling dealer ordered the truck from.

Do NOT believe the mileage! The odometer reads to 99,999.9 then returns to ZERO!

You want to speak with truckdog62563 .. the FTE guru on wheels/tires for these old rolling piles of misery.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:34 AM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Cool, thanks ND. The pics I have seen make me think its the Clark transmission. And the 66 grille agrees with the registration I found in it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52 F-1 View Post
Cool, thanks ND. The pics I have seen make me think its the Clark transmission. And the 66 grille agrees with the registration I found in it.

EDIT: full vin is F60BK802378 so definitely 66.
After I read thru post 5, I edited the serial number in after the fact....take a look-see.

Where in WI? My mom born in Green Bay, grandma in Sturgeon Bay.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:17 AM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Rice Lake area which is fairly west of there. I only get over to the lake side for vacation related purposes.

EDIT: speaking of WI that's yet another reason I just discovered to not buy this, 20k GVW truck is $356 per year for license plate fees. Unless you are using it for paid commercial purposes its just not worth it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:09 PM
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If you've decided to not buy the truck this may be a pointless exercise, but here's the info anyway.

Most, but not all, of the F-600s with two part tube type wheels had the kind that are today called "widow makers", technical term is "Firestone RH-5°". If you Google those two quoted terms you'll find a lot written about them. The key feature of the widow makers is their mid-line joint as seen in the below pictures. If the truck has them, and needs new tires anyway, the smart money would be to find a set of Accuride #28157 tubeless 22.5" wheels then have 9R22.5" tires mounted, assuming the truck has normal "dual cap nut" or "stud piloted" hub mountings. The F-600s have a 6 lug x 8.75" bolt pattern which is still a reasonably common pattern, so finding used sets of the Accurides isn't normally real hard. If you do decide to buy the truck one of our members may have a set of these available. If the truck has the dreaded combo of widow makers and hub piloted mountings, that's a whole different discussion. I'll post pictures of each style lug nut to help you determine which it has. Stu

Widow maker pictures:




Budd style "dual cap nut", also called "stud piloted" or "ball seat" mounting:



Motor Wheel style "hub piloted" mounting. The lug nuts will have floating captive compression washers behind the nuts:


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Old 06-05-2013, 11:35 PM
52 F-1 52 F-1 is offline
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Not pointless thanks for the info as I was waffling again, the guy started the truck today to move it and it happily drove right up a steep incline to the front of his house and is sitting on a driveway, so everything really does seem to work on it.

I would be looking to toss the rims then too I think as they seem to be the Budd lug nuts (no washer) but a few pics I hadn't posted have that hump shaped ring like your pic visible so I am pretty sure even without going back over there that its the original widow maker rims just painted up nice and not newer ones like I thought.

I think considering the cost of new rims and tires plus registration plus battery plus windshield, plus window seals so its stops raining in the interior plus a complete reseal for the tilt hydraulics, basically its a several thousand dollar truck now which it is not worth to me, thanks for the help everyone.

I can't stop looking at that oddball 77 Uhaul F350 in front of it though (thread in dentside forum), it would be a gas guzzling slug but oh the things I could build in that huge aluminum cave on the back of it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:35 PM
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