well you can definitely gain 100 hp and stay speed dnesity. get a good set of iron heads (cheaper). then have a custom cam made for speed density. cam motion makes great custom speed density cams that make big power. just tell the cam maker what your goals are ahd hell make you a cam that suits you. bigger injectors are in order also. 30#ers should be fine. have your chip made to your liking and finish your bottom end rebuild and you should be all set. even if you went with the mass air you would still need to have a chip made. the mass air kits come as a direct bolt on tuned for a stock engine setup. once you start tweaking the heads, cam etc the timing and fuel strategies will not suit your combo. so either way you would have to get a chip. basically its the cam that aggrivates the speed density. once lobe centers get below 114* you start running into idle problems. the idle vacuum is not high and this confuses the speed density. so all you do is have a speed density cam made. i know of a few guys on speed density who make well over 600 hp. plus the custom cam isnt any more expensive than an off the shelf one. the cam maker can even help keep emissions down with the design of the cam. all of this can definitely be done and stay smog legal.

 

What happens if you put a few mods on and decide to change something. Do you have to buy a new chip or can you re-program the one you would have just put in.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

you just send it back to the guy you bought it from and hell make all the necessary changes. most of the time theyll do it for free or a very small fee.

 

Sounds like the way to go. The ones that Ken Payne sell would work right? I remember him talking about programming them.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-Jul-02 AT 02:09 PM (EST)]Thanks for all the info!

I have been told that with a mass air EEC you DONT need any re-programming or a chip. It can monitor how much fuel to mix because it precisely measures the air consumption of the engine. Therefore you wouldn't need any modifications to the "chip" or the EEC when adding a bigger cam or charger, because it will recognize that more air is being consumed so it gives more gas. Is this just not true? Is staying with speed density the "cheap" way?

Either way seems to work, but it sounds to that if you want to do it right, then mass air is the way to go, because its more accurate, and it tunes itself, no need for re-programming a chip everytime you make a slight change to your engine.

Is any of this true, or am I blowing smoke? Let me know what you guys think. All this info is coming from various places on the web, machine shops, & how-to forums. So I am just trying to decide who is right, who is wrong, or is it just a matter of personal opinion. ? .

Got my Photos up now. Check 'em out!

 

I would stay with speed density. Ken Payne aka webmaster is the owner of this site, there is a thread locked on the top of this forum about diablo chips. The ones he sells and programs through motor haven. He knows a lot about chips and they are on sale so go for it, it helps support this site too.

Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

well in both cases the oxygen sensor to a point will help the add any fuel needed for MINOR engine mods. you dont need a chip reprogram for minor mods. basically only ones that intensly change airflow characteristics. i.e. heads cam. tranny mods can be done thru a chip also like bumping up epc pressure to firm up shifts. something that needs to be done when adding alot more hp. otherwise the shifts will take long and the trans will burn up. also in mass air applications it is possible to peg the meter voltage. this happens when when there is so much airflow at high rpms that the voltage pegs to 5 and the meter can no longer read any additional incoming air. now youve got to get a mass air meter that handles the airflow. theres another 300$. theres more to it than just bolting the kit on and building the engine to high heaven. also in the kits the timing maps are pre built in. so mods that require timing advancments and retard will not happen unless you manually adjust the distributor. that sucks. so eventually you will be having a chip made for your mass air system. the timing map can be intrduced into the chip just for your application. or what about when your mass air kit is pre programmed to shift at 5000rpm but you performance engine will pull to 6000. now you need a chip to change the shift point so you can take advantage of that extra 1000rpm. i can go on and on here. what im saying is that your gonna need a chip either way. so you might as well start with a chip. if you dont get the results you need then spend 800$ on your mass air.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-Jul-02 AT 03:06 PM (EST)]Hey guys,

Does anyone know a lot about rear ends?

I want to swap a 10.25" 1 ton in. Is this possible?
I have the 8.8" now.

My concern is that my speedometer and auto transmission both rely on the speed signal from the rear end.

Is the signal exactly the same on the two? Are the spring pirches the same? Is the width the same?

Thanks for all the help, any comments on this will help!

 

The signal is different, but is handled in the PSOM (programmable speedometer/odometer module) in the same way. The 3800 lb. rear has an exciter ring with 108 teeth, the 5300 lb. and larger rears have a 120 tooth exciter ring. You would need to change your conversion constant stored in the PSOM accordingly. You'll also need to correct it for any change in tire size but not for changes in ring and pinion ratio.

 

Thank you for the info. How would I make the rear end work? Now I know what changes have to be done, but how do I change the PSOM module? Is their a chip or something?

Thanks

 

Why do you want to get rid of the 8.8? It can handle A LOT of power, upwards of 500+ with a few mods easy.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

Yes it may be able to handle "street rod" power, but it is no match for the offroad challenges such as mud, sand, rocks, hills, & water... I have seen way too many 8.8's leave people stuck with the only way home by using front wheel drive.

1 ton running gear will prevent that from happening to me.

Does anyone have other opinions on this? I would like to hear them, you guys just may change my mind again.

Thanks

 

Yeah in that aspect you're right, even 38.5 swampers are pushing that 8.8's axles. I'm not sure if you could put strong enough axles in that or not. Try the axle forum to find out.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

It would be easier to mod the 8.8 than change it out.

Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Sunroof, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Then theres:
99' Mustang GT 4.6L
88' F-250 Superduty 4x4 351/c6
95' Mercury Cougar 4.6L V-8
80' E-350 300/6 with a
3 spd column shifter. Top speed is 65mph, Go Baby Go!

 

> but how do I change
>the PSOM module? Is their a chip or something?


The PSOM is user-reprogrammable in the dash, takes about 2 minutes. The only trick is to figure out what numbers to put into it. You basically need to know your tire revs/mile (manufacturers spec, NOT calculated from diameter) and the programming sequence. For the 10.25 rear, the conversion constant is (tire revs per mile x .015) and the procedure is somewhere on this site, do a search.