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Old 05-24-2013, 01:47 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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My planned Conversion, work in progress (subject to change)

Figured I'd create this thread to track my current use of WVO, what is in the process for conversion, and what the final plan is (what I am currently have in mind).

Feel free to post different ideas or suggestions, I have ideas that I want to try, and things I would like to do but they could change based off advise given or other things.

Current:

Truck runs a WVO blend when warmed up, start-up and shutdown on diesel.

Diesel has 2cyl oil added for additional lubrication at the rate of approximately 1oz per gallon.

Occasionally I will use a few oz of ATF in the diesel.

Soon to add:

I have a couple large Vegtherms coming tomorrow according to the tracking, 1 will be added just before the IP and the other directly off the front fuel tank.

Next week sometime, I should have the new fuel switch (in the mail) that will be added to switch the fuel from the rear tank to the front tank just before the factory fuel pump (should make purging the system for shutdown a bit faster).

If I get to it this weekend, I have 2 heat exchangers off a commercial carpet cleaning system I plan to use at least initially till I can afford better more compact ones. First one I plan to incorporate is just before the fuel pump to ensure the WVO is hot and minimize the strain on the pump from cooler WVO remaining in the lines for initial switching of fuels. It is an exhaust heat exchanger. Other heat exchanger is a coolant based.

ASAP:

Install second Alternator, already have it, got an external regulator for it, plan to isolate the second alternator and use it to run the Vegtherm's on switches (will only operate when engine is running (would hate to accidentally leave on and drain my batteries plus I'd like to keep the strain off the existing electrical system)).

Future:

In the works, talking with my local machine shop, looking into building a custom aluminum fuel tank. This truck is my family truck and long haul, I have a trip in late July that I would love to have all the upgrades done by then but I have a backup system in the works (backup high capacity fuel tank). Roughly 3300 miles round trip, backup tank is 275 gallons. I have decided I will turn my truck into a flatbed which will better fit my needs. It has a pop-up 5th Wheel which I will remount into the flatbed from the truck bed.

The planned flatbed is a step-up flatbed roughly 8'x10', the custom tank width will be 6' so it fits behind the cab and has an additional 1' on either side for safety and such. Length and height to be determined later on but planned capacity to be about 200 gallons, perhaps a little more. Because I am paranoid and such, top of tank will have a access hatch. Laced across bottom of tank will be coolant lines of Stainless Steel or aluminum (not decided yet but it will be high quality) Tank will be heated primarily off engine coolant, have an electric pump, heated pickup, insulated lines, insulated tank, duel electric and coolant heating. Baffles on tank for sloshing and the basic necessities.

Independent filtering for both fuel supplies, fuel switching near IP for fast purging. Temperature/pressure/electrical gauges/sensors throughout system to monitor system.



One of the biggest things about construction of the entire system is easy swap ability. System will be built so that if truck were to ever die for whatever reason, entire WVO system could be easily and quickly transplanted to a new vehicle to keep up the fuel savings.

Depending on how far my new job goes, I may end up adding a vac pump system for the collection of WVO and possibly build an onboard centrifuge processing plant. I already have a nice vacuum pump (needs a rebuild) and motor to power it (need new fuel tank). The harder part will be finding a vac tank but I could custom build one. I will probably do some parts machining for the truck, not sure what but it will come to me, I have a nice large bore 11-27 lathe coming that will arrive next week.

Anyways, that's what I am doing/envisioning.
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1985 F-350 Crew Cab
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Converting to run WVO, almost there.
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2013, 06:07 PM
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Christof13T Christof13T is offline
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Dang it why cant i find access to a nice set of machines nearby!?

To think of the countless hours i spent running a doosan dhm-800 diamond... cutting ram blocks for b.o.p.'s...

Man i miss that mill... i could cut out some redictaculous heat exchangers with that bad boy.


I like your idea of making it modular so it can slide off to another truck easily...

Pictures...
We likey pictures...
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2013, 01:58 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Some parts came today as expected, some came earlier than expected, got some time to visit my local machine shop and they did some work for me, were nice enough to do it for free and even gave me pizza....

Got 2 of the Larger Vegtherm kits, a 2" cap with hole in end for mounting the high flow faucet that will supply oil to the 12V harbor freight marine pump which will then pump it through the 10 micron filter (till the new 5 micron arrives). Also got the fuel switch.

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1985 F-350 Crew Cab
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Converting to run WVO, almost there.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:47 AM
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Your going to probably discover that vo and brass dont get along very well.
Stainless or aluminum fittings/valves are recommended.

If you go ahead with the build using brass... im not going to jump on the brow beating bandwagon... im curious too... just maybe be really cautious and every once in a while crack the connections open to look for polymer buildup.

Did some experimenting with contaminated steel drums...
Had like less than half a quart of clean, New motor oil...
Sucked up about 3 gallons of wvo... let it sit for a few minutes and then blew it out...
What came out was an instantly polymerized sludge... almost white in color... with about a 1/8" of clear oil on top.

After a week... the skim on top hasnt changed... but a separation has started to occur within the glob... darker fluid dropping to bottom...

Would hate to hear that you got all clogged up... that stuff isnt fun...

Ooo... i also had a nice "Shure" diaphragm pump that got wmo and wvo mixed inside the pump body...

Locked up solid... its a paperweight now.

Are you incorporating any check valves on your feeds to eliminate cross contamination?

My system as planned...

D2 system will remain stock... the spin on i installed last year and with wvo in mind will be rerouted for the vegi tank... there is already a oem style fuel tank switcher...

Im going to incorporate that guy by:

The return line to the vo tank is getting removed/capped.

Check valves will go between lines and the heads so vo doesnt backfeed into d2 system
Same for the other system... check valves will keep d2 from contaminating the vo system.

2 pumps...
Oem pump will continue to pump d2 as always...
2nd pump on the vo side...

Oem pump is getting no changes...
It will run continuously...

The vo pump will be slightly higher psi so when it gets flipped on... vo pressure will close off the d2 and take over...

Rerouting the return for vo to the vo fuel pickup in between the tank and pump...
One more check valve to keep that hot vo from going in the tank...

I live in south Texas... i really dont need to heat my whole tank.

Eventually i want to do a bowl delete/full regulated return... but im hoping this will work for now.
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2013, 02:04 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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I'm aware of the brass not liking the wvo, it is simply there right now because it was a large opening valve to keep the pump from straining when pulling fuel from the 275gal tank.

I'm still adding onto the design, check valves and such will be added. Have a lot on my mind, running a new business I took over, still working old job, just got done installing vegtherm mega on my fathers truck, going to change over his fuel lines next with some nice 200psi, 200degree max working temp 3/8" EDPM. That fuel line only cost me $.64 a foot, not bad IMO.
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Converting to run WVO, almost there.
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
I'm aware of the brass not liking the wvo,... Have a lot on my mind, running a new business I took over, still working old job, just got done installing...

I've been following your progress, and I'm impressed by your dedication to the conversion. But it worries me that you have so many plates spinning, and if you caused IP/injector failure on your truck due to polymerization, then you'd be in a much bigger predicament than if you just waited to use the WVO once your truck is fully converted to aluminum/stainless (with all the appropriate parts).

Christof13T is right, you could already have poly issues because the reaction happens fast. all you need is oxygen, grease, a reactive metal, and warmth--then it will exponentially spread. back in 2006, I had a friend that used brass, and while we drove thru New Mexico at night, we had fuel pressure problems. The conversion was only a few weeks old, and where the brass components were, there was poly already there, and a lot of it. I clogged up lines and his filter. We had to limp the car on Diesel to a shop. I still cringe when I hear the sound of those early 80's Diesel MB's at night, i can remember it like it was yesterday .

Just a heads up, it's your truck and i'm looking forward to seeing what mods you add to the vehicle.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:20 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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I believe my father has suffered a bit from polmerized fuel but all of that happened inside his tank I believe, I pumped his tank. I cleaned his fuel and ranit just fine.

I would love to do the entire conversion first before running but I am not in the position to do that. There are places I have to be and simply, I can't afford using diesel as it would be half my monthly paycheck. My truck burns a bit of oil, 1qt per 250 miles or so is my guess. I know I will be pulling the engine for new rings and such or finding a new used motor for cheap and slowly rebuilding to eventually drop in hopefully by the end of the year if not sooner.

I'm on my 3rd fuel filter in about 2500 miles, I'm driving further and further on them meaning the system is almost cleaned out.

I have only one piece of brass as a coupler but that will be replaced soon. I've pumped my own tank to check for palmerized fuel from the return lines and only had fresh wvo blend.

I'm in the process of getting an aluminum tank for my father, then one for me.

Can anyone tell me the type of fitting and thread on the output of the mechanical fuel pump? Had to replace my fathers with some modified fittings of brass but he is running just plain diesel till we finish his truck. I need to know what the fittings are I need to order for both my truck and his.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:36 AM
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If your talking obs or idi... its hose barb if i recall...
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:25 AM
joshofalltrades joshofalltrades is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpackrat View Post

ASAP:

Install second Alternator, already have it, got an external regulator for it, plan to isolate the second alternator ..... (would hate to accidentally leave on and drain my batteries plus I'd like to keep the strain off the existing electrical system).
i play with enough wiring for a hobby that i have to ask how exactly you plan to set this up. if you have it as a fully divorced system, it'll need its own battery for the regulator to work right.
if you try to run the second alternator with its regulator controlled by the starting batteries, but its output divorced from that, it can do all kinds of weird things, it might put out 80 volts if it wants to. and really, i'm not just making that up.

my suggestion would be to upgrade the primary alternator to a 130a 3g unit and have just one system, OR have a separate battery for the second alternator and have them truly divorced.

it seems your main reason to seperate it is to prevent you from running down the starting batteries accidentally - why not just have a relay that locks all that stuff out when the engine is off


and that last question about the lift pump fittings, the inlet is a hose barb, the output is a flare fitting, i believe 3/8 nominal size
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:37 PM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Its a 1985 F350 6.9l 3-Speed auto 2WD.

The plan is to isolate the system but I may change my mind, at present the plan of isolating the negative is to simply mount the alternator to the engine with the bolts going through rubber grommets.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:35 AM
joshofalltrades joshofalltrades is offline
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i'm still not sure if thats gonna work right, so i would suggest testing it with just a couple light bulbs or something cheap before you put anything expensive on that system
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:16 AM
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So here is a question for all of you running SVO, the high pressure lines from the IP to the Injectors are steel. With Steel and Brass to be avoided, do you replace those lines with something custom made or leave them as is?



Quote:
Originally Posted by joshofalltrades View Post
i'm still not sure if thats gonna work right, so i would suggest testing it with just a couple light bulbs or something cheap before you put anything expensive on that system

Will do.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:55 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Well I just got in a deal of buying an old mercedes diesel, a simple centrifuge, full multi barrel and polly tote processing system and about 750 gallons of wmo as well as some pumps, vacume super sucker mixing barrels and more for $4000.

Got some of the stuff tonight, will get the rest tomorrow. What is a good blend to run wmo and/or the wvo?
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:27 AM
joshofalltrades joshofalltrades is offline
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sounds like a good find

NEVER MIX WMO AND WVO or they'll sludge up and plug every line and filter you put near them!!! thoroughly rinse your tank with clean diesel when switching from one to the other. i suggest running it as near empty as you dare, adding a few gallons of #2, and repeating that several times before adding the other oil

i've heard of plenty of guys here running WVO straight in one tank, and switching to clean #2 for start up and shut down, and i hear they have no trouble with it as long as they have proper heat systems and all that, which it appears you do/will
for WMO, i often run it at 50-75% with no trouble at all, and i'm only filtering it through paper filters, i've heard of guys with a centrifuge running it up around 90% or so. as a general rule, the greedier you get, the more likely you are to run into problems, so i would suggest keeping it in the range i run.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:06 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshofalltrades View Post
sounds like a good find

NEVER MIX WMO AND WVO or they'll sludge up and plug every line and filter you put near them!!! thoroughly rinse your tank with clean diesel when switching from one to the other. i suggest running it as near empty as you dare, adding a few gallons of #2, and repeating that several times before adding the other oil

i've heard of plenty of guys here running WVO straight in one tank, and switching to clean #2 for start up and shut down, and i hear they have no trouble with it as long as they have proper heat systems and all that, which it appears you do/will
for WMO, i often run it at 50-75% with no trouble at all, and i'm only filtering it through paper filters, i've heard of guys with a centrifuge running it up around 90% or so. as a general rule, the greedier you get, the more likely you are to run into problems, so i would suggest keeping it in the range i run.
Bought it from a guy who was running it as a 50/50 mix with regular diesel.

This is probably the wrong place to ask but can anyone identify this engine:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...psd2c3face.jpg

I'm thinking its one of the 12 valves as its a 6cyl and I hear those are great for running WVO as well.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:06 AM
 
 
 
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