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Old 05-11-2013, 09:24 PM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Filter Clogging on something/Getting SVO parts

I bought my truck from a guy who used it lightly for 7 years and just help people move things with it, 5 years ago, it had a ton of work done to it like a new head gasket and more for an oil leak into the cylinder. The guy he bought if from had it converted to run Bio-D and ran some kind of special fuel line system. They guy I got if from had difficulty running regular diesel through it so he had the fuel lines changed back.

When I bought the truck, I noticed a second fuel filter and though that was cool but did not pay much attention to it, I changed the regular fuel filter on it but left the other along, didn't think much of it.

In the process of dropping and emptying my front tank (heavy thing full), changing a couple lines to EDPM (still got some others to change), I starting tracing the fuel lines to the engine. I found that before the fuel pump, they went through that other filter. I removed it and found it to be a 2 micron filter and completely clogged, the bowl on the bottom had 3/4" of brown sludge. The filter was clogged and since it would be days till I could order one and I'm waiting on a paycheck (transferring jobs still and getting on payroll), I decided to clean it out as best I could with gasoline. Worked great, got it cleaned out lot, used about a gallon on gas and soft edge of a screwdriver to break free the junk from the filter, I got it usable for a temporary till a new one.

Got it primed and re-installed, after re-installing the tank and lines, I filled it back with my bio blend (good thinned out, we use it all the time in the work truck trouble free although I will be converting to a heated system asap so I don't have to blend) that I pumped from the tank (it was still nice and clean so the tank inside is okay for now).

Ran the truck for 15min in the driveway, switching between tanks to prime the front tank lines for the first minute or so. Went on a drive shortly after running blend and before long, about a 1.5 miles while waiting to turn, the system starved and died. Took a bit to get the diesel primed and start the engine but we did it while traffic backed up behind us in the turn lane in the burning heat.....

Anyways, ran the rest of the errands on diesel, noticed a heater core leak so I will be bypassing that till I can get a new one (don't really need a heater in this heat right now anyways so it can wait). I thought to myself that maybe the fuel pump was struggling to pump the blend though the 2 micron filter and that was starving the system so I bought a fitting to bypass that filter. Upon installing the bypass (still have the trucks original filter going) and removing the filter, I noticed some more sediment in the bowl, I hope its just stuff I dislodged in cleaning because it was not brand new clean it was just miles better than before. Still, I wonder, I have the 2 micron filter bypassed and will see if it stalls again on the Bio, I hope not because I only have my 30gal of blend to last me 200 miles till my next payday (plus 6gal or so diesel in the rear tank for start-up and shutdown).

If I do get more junk going through the system the factory filter should catch it and its cheaper to replace at only $16 in store vs the 2 micron at almost $50.

Here is the filter when I bypassed it and removed it:



I hope the bypassing of the filter will ease the strain on the bio on its way up, I have a new fuel pump installed (pain to get that second inside bolt on), going to do a test drive on it later tonight around the block, the stall on bio has happened twice, once before seeing that 2micron filter, 1 after cleaning it, and I hope not to have it at all now that its bypassed.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:56 PM
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To clarify, when you say 'bio-d' do you really mean to say svo, (straight veg oil), or biodiesel? I was thrown off by the bit about running a special fuel line system for bio. You make reference to a 'bio blend'. What is in that? I'm just trying to sort through your post to figure out what it is that you are actually running. If it is svo your running, then it sounds like polymerized oil is mucking up the fuel system.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binuya View Post
To clarify, when you say 'bio-d' do you really mean to say svo, (straight veg oil), or biodiesel? I was thrown off by the bit about running a special fuel line system for bio. You make reference to a 'bio blend'. What is in that? I'm just trying to sort through your post to figure out what it is that you are actually running. If it is svo your running, then it sounds like polymerized oil is mucking up the fuel system.

Bio-D = Biodiesel

Blend = Raw Power WVO Designs Centrifuge cleaned Oil + 25% Diesel + 13% Gas.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:19 PM
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I'd venture to guess that the biodiesel is dislodging some polymerized veg oil.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2013, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binuya View Post
I'd venture to guess that the biodiesel is dislodging some polymerized veg oil.
I don't run Biodiesel though, the person before the guy I bought the truck from ran biodeisel in the truck, I run a WVO blend in the truck.

Edit:

Ran the truck for a few miles down the HWY, back and forth (keep the truck close to home in case of problems) no problems on the blend, the bypass on the 2micron filter works great, ran the last couple miles on diesel to clear the lines.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:28 PM
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You might have to drop your tank, clean it, and replace all your fuel lines that the previous owner used.

Frankly, i'd never use a mild steel tank to store BioD or WVO. Some people use mild steel tanks for BioD. Regardless, once you [or the PO] make the switch to BioD, it will act as a solvent and clean out your old Diesel tank, which will result in clogged filters. As for your image, it looks 100% like poly, so you have lots of problems. Good thing your filter caught it before it ruined your IP and injectors, so I'm a little scared at this bypass thing you speak of.

This reminds me of the old Lovecraft designs, where the hipster were complaining that they were running thru too many filters with that flawed system, and Lovecraft provided a "bypass filter system" that allowed unfiltered veg once the filter fully clogged. Off topic, but just reminds me of that.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genscripter View Post
You might have to drop your tank, clean it, and replace all your fuel lines that the previous owner used.

Frankly, i'd never use a mild steel tank to store BioD or WVO. Some people use mild steel tanks for BioD. Regardless, once you [or the PO] make the switch to BioD, it will act as a solvent and clean out your old Diesel tank, which will result in clogged filters. As for your image, it looks 100% like poly, so you have lots of problems. Good thing your filter caught it before it ruined your IP and injectors, so I'm a little scared at this bypass thing you speak of.

This reminds me of the old Lovecraft designs, where the hipster were complaining that they were running thru too many filters with that flawed system, and Lovecraft provided a "bypass filter system" that allowed unfiltered veg once the filter fully clogged. Off topic, but just reminds me of that.
I've dropped the tank, emptied, and the fuel was nice and clean even after sloshing in the tank for 80 miles.

Far as I know, there is 3 owners:

3rd is myself
2nd is the guy I bought it from
1st is the person the 2nd guy bought it from.

Person #1 converted truck to Biodiesel, ran a 2 micron filter as seen in the picture before the mechanical fuel pump.

Person #2 had some kind of issues with the new fuel lines person #1 used and therefore changed the fuel lines back to factory but left the original modifications.

Person #3, me, I am running a WVO Blend of 4 gallons WVO to 1 Gallon Diesel, to .6 Gallons Gas. I replaced the fuel pump when it died, truck would starve on the WVO blend, I dropped the fuel tank, emptied it, changed the lines from the tank to the tank switch box (controls what tanks the fuel flows from), traced the lines up to the engine, found the 2micron filter system before the fuel pump and completely clogged with a dark brown sediment. Cleaned it a lot with gas, tried running my WVO blend, got better results but it still eventually died (filter in bad shape, clogged well, only diesel could pass though and barely). Bypassed the clogged 2micron filter assembly with a simple fitting. Fuel now flows to the pump, up to the stock filter, and then on to the injector pump. Ran a 200 mile trip on roughly 12gallons of WVO blend without a problem, got another 80 mile trip tomorrow early and will drop the factory filter and see if it has any sediment. I think the intense clog in the 2micron filter was the main cause of problems. Will find out later if there was any residual sediment in the system when I remove the factory fuel filter.

The WVO blend is still filtered before it enters the engine, once I can afford to get one of those expensive 2micron filters, I will try it again running the diesel and WVO blend though it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:40 AM
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Well, you are definitely narrowing the list of potential issues so that is good.

The problem I see, is you are doing too many things that most of the greasers would say are "no-no's." Maybe you have resolved the issue of the 2 micron filter, but you are going to run into more of the same problems with that fuel system because of the PO's design.

Here are some of the "no-no's:" (for lack of a better term)

1.) using the stock fuel filter for WVO
2.) using mild steel tank
3.) using the stock fuel pump
3.) not using a heated filter head
4.) running a blend.
5.) using part or some of the steel stock fuel lines

Even if you fixed or replaced all the fuel hoses (with EDPM that's a great upgrade btw ), replaced the 2 micron filter, replaced the fuel pump, cleaned the steel tank, etc etc.... , X number of miles down the road, you will be back at the point you are now. Maybe that is ok with you, and cleaning or replacing the 2 micron filter is not a problem for your driving patterns.

But if you want to make this system work long term, you might need to scrap the PO's old design and put the truck back to stock until you can do a full 2-tank conversion. You'd want to have a separate aluminum tank (probably with a heated fuel pickup like a hotfox or aluminum hose coil), dedicated veg fuel pump, heated aluminum HOH/TOT/TIH fuel lines, nickel-plated (not copper) 20-40 plate FPHE, heated filter head like this, aluminum fittings, and sturdy not plastic selector valves like Hydroforce or WVO designs stuff.

Not trying to cramp your style, but I've seen too many guys get a Diesel to do a WVO conversion, just to be tracking down endless fuel-related problems. Most of them just gave up on the whole process. Some said screw it, replaced the whole system and most are running grease to this day.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:44 AM
Orpackrat Orpackrat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genscripter View Post
Well, you are definitely narrowing the list of potential issues so that is good.

The problem I see, is you are doing too many things that most of the greasers would say are "no-no's." Maybe you have resolved the issue of the 2 micron filter, but you are going to run into more of the same problems with that fuel system because of the PO's design.

Here are some of the "no-no's:" (for lack of a better term)

1.) using the stock fuel filter for WVO
2.) using mild steel tank
3.) using the stock fuel pump
3.) not using a heated filter head
4.) running a blend.
5.) using part or some of the steel stock fuel lines

Even if you fixed or replaced all the fuel hoses (with EDPM that's a great upgrade btw ), replaced the 2 micron filter, replaced the fuel pump, cleaned the steel tank, etc etc.... , X number of miles down the road, you will be back at the point you are now. Maybe that is ok with you, and cleaning or replacing the 2 micron filter is not a problem for your driving patterns.

But if you want to make this system work long term, you might need to scrap the PO's old design and put the truck back to stock until you can do a full 2-tank conversion. You'd want to have a separate aluminum tank (probably with a heated fuel pickup like a hotfox or aluminum hose coil), dedicated veg fuel pump, heated aluminum HOH/TOT/TIH fuel lines, nickel-plated (not copper) 20-40 plate FPHE, heated filter head like this, aluminum fittings, and sturdy not plastic selector valves like Hydroforce or WVO designs stuff.

Not trying to cramp your style, but I've seen too many guys get a Diesel to do a WVO conversion, just to be tracking down endless fuel-related problems. Most of them just gave up on the whole process. Some said screw it, replaced the whole system and most are running grease to this day.
This is only to get by for now, as I start getting paychecks, the truck will be upgraded to full on heated system with the correct tanks, lines, full electric and coolant heating, I have already got an extra alternator and regulator for it, will just have to make a mount to use it in place of the AC compressor. Have planned a double fuel filter system with the SVO having its own designated lines and everything.

For now, since I can't do everything at once, this will work for the next month although I do plan to be upgrading it asap, hopefully starting next week with the vegtherms as well and finish replacing the fuel lines with the EDPM I got and trying the system again but with a fresh 2Micron filter.

I'm on my way to work in a minute for some new business accounts and then to work on building up my processing plant for a more continuous flowing system on the WVO designs Raw Power Heated Centrifuge with Heated intake and booster cone. I am a bit behind at the moment in processing WVO and have 350 gallons awaiting processing.
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Last edited by Orpackrat; 05-13-2013 at 07:56 AM. Reason: adding details
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
I have already got an extra alternator and regulator for it, will just have to make a mount to use it in place of the AC compressor

You should PM or post a message to Joshofalltrades, who did exactly this and has an amazing AC power system. He has pictures, but I think they are online by invitation only. He does some great work.

Any reason why you want two alternators? If you are looking for more power, you could just upgrade your current system to one 3G alternator, and easily get the accumulative power of two 1G alternators. Plus that elminates the need for the external regulators. And then you don't have to trash your AC conpressor, if you choose to fix up your AC cooling system. (just because we are greasers, doesn't mean we don't ride in style )

Quote:
350 gallons
That is a nice chunk of grease.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genscripter View Post
You should PM or post a message to Joshofalltrades, who did exactly this and has an amazing AC power system. He has pictures, but I think they are online by invitation only. He does some great work.

Any reason why you want two alternators? If you are looking for more power, you could just upgrade your current system to one 3G alternator, and easily get the accumulative power of two 1G alternators. Plus that elminates the need for the external regulators. And then you don't have to trash your AC conpressor, if you choose to fix up your AC cooling system. (just because we are greasers, doesn't mean we don't ride in style )



That is a nice chunk of grease.
Because before I sold my old '88 Diesel for parts years ago, I pulled my alternator because it was new and I knew I would have an eventual use for it.

I may just be a little creative and figure a way to run double alternators and still keep the AC compressor.

I may still end up dumping the AC but I do have a design in the works on making a nice custom Swamp Cooler to use in place of AC.

I like extra power, I like going the extra mile, I like have things on a truck that other people just wonder why....(better the have and not need than need and not have). Since I will be building a custom flatbed on it, Built in Generator, Power inverter system, deep cycle, battery charging station (need to keep my Lithium Ion and my Girl Friends AA batteries charged at all times), air compressor, and more. I'm working on designing a truck mounted/powered centrifuge system that would allow for mobile WVO processing. Still a concept, will see if will work its way into my plans for the truck.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
I may just be a little creative and figure a way to run double alternators and still keep the AC compressor.


You truck guys are so lucky. So much room under the hood. I'd never have the room to have 2 alternators and a AC Pump in my van.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genscripter View Post
You truck guys are so lucky. So much room under the hood. I'd never have the room to have 2 alternators and a AC Pump in my van.
Granted it would not be under the hood but you could cut a hole in your hood for the extra alternator to fit lol.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:58 AM
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Since I'm building my fathers truck to run SVO as well, he was nice enough to purchase some extra heaters (I got the easy part of only having to install everything plus some extra fixing on his truck).

He will be running a Vegtherm and a coolant/200 watt filter assembly with a new high flow fuel selector valve initially.

I will be running Duel Vegtherm's, and got one of the high flow selector valves as well.

Will run a Vegtherm right off the fuel tanks for initial heating (to travel though the system), then full EDPM hoses all the way to the fuel pump where it will hit the new selector switch (don't have electric Fuel pumps for the SVO yet but will modify the system later when we get them). He will have his heated filter assembly for the final kick in heating and I will have the second Vegtherm. I still need to get a replacement 2 micron filter (awaiting a good paycheck where I can afford to get one).

Making progress on the system .
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:55 AM
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OEM diesel fuel filters are 6-10 microns most OEM systems have no pre pump filtration, this can be a problem with any fuel, in any tank that is twenty years old. farmers have been using 10 micron filters for years. 10 is good, 6 is better, 4 is to sensitive to CFFF (cold fuel flow factor) 2 is over kill in my book..dewatering is more important..Do your filtration in your fuel manufacturing plant, pre final storage, and pre vehicle.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:55 AM
 
 
 
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