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2007+ Expedition & Navigator 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator

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Old 04-30-2013, 07:39 AM
svfetter svfetter is offline
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Oil Cap Buildup ??

Curious situation on my 2011 Expedition. I drive about 5 miles to work every day one way. After having fresh oil and filter installed before winter, when changing this spring, when I took off the oil cap it was full of a light tan whipped cream substance. Clearly a mixture of oil and moisture which is not burnt off on my short drive to work in the winter. Oil looked normal when drained and temp gauge gets to normal before I get to work. After changing oil this spring it has still been cool and after a week of driving I checked the cap and this light creamy coating had started to form in the cap again. Cleaned it all out.

Never had this on my previous Expedition driving the same trip every morning. Further, my wife drives her 95 Mustang even a shorter distance to a bus stop every day and no issue with her in all the years I have owned that car.

The new Expedition did not do this during the last summer. No Creamy buildup in the oil cap during the hotter months. I have owned nothing but Fords all my life and never seen anything like this. Any Ideas ??
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:13 AM
montecarlo31 montecarlo31 is offline
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Without seeing what you are describing I would say this is normal. Your wife's car may actually get to a higher oil temp in a shorter drive due to several factors, sump size and capacity, cooling capacity and load.

Your 5 mile drive doesn't let you engine warm up, remember you have 7+ quarts of oil to warm up while at the same time it's being cooled by air moving over the cooler and sump. Your coolant is also helping keep the oil temps low even with the T-stat working correctly.

You noted that the temp shows normal however ford uses idiot functions for their readouts, even oil pressure and engine temp. The ECM feeds the dash to show that the pressure or temp is normal for it's operating condition not that it's actually 60 PSI or 40 PSI etc. If they were live, you would see higher oil pressure in the morning and lower as the drive went on and oil became more fluid. I would attempt to drive your Expedition for at least 30 minutes ever week or two so that it gets up to temp and the oil can heat up enough to burn off the water.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:24 AM
svfetter svfetter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montecarlo31 View Post
Without seeing what you are describing I would say this is normal. Your wife's car may actually get to a higher oil temp in a shorter drive due to several factors, sump size and capacity, cooling capacity and load.

Your 5 mile drive doesn't let you engine warm up, remember you have 7+ quarts of oil to warm up while at the same time it's being cooled by air moving over the cooler and sump. Your coolant is also helping keep the oil temps low even with the T-stat working correctly.

You noted that the temp shows normal however ford uses idiot functions for their readouts, even oil pressure and engine temp. The ECM feeds the dash to show that the pressure or temp is normal for it's operating condition not that it's actually 60 PSI or 40 PSI etc. If they were live, you would see higher oil pressure in the morning and lower as the drive went on and oil became more fluid. I would attempt to drive your Expedition for at least 30 minutes ever week or two so that it gets up to temp and the oil can heat up enough to burn off the water.
I think you hit on something I had not thought of yet - and that is the 7 quart factor. That is a considerable amount of oil to heat up as you pointed out. My earlier expedition only had 6 quarts. I believe this may be the main issue with a short drive.

Further - in commenting on the Temp gauge as you spoke of, it does come up slowly, but if Ford is employing the same design as my 2007 Mustang - Gauge is actually reading head temp and not coolant temp. In this case all fluids would be cooler than head and what gauge is showing.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:25 PM
montecarlo31 montecarlo31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svfetter View Post
I think you hit on something I had not thought of yet - and that is the 7 quart factor. That is a considerable amount of oil to heat up as you pointed out. My earlier expedition only had 6 quarts. I believe this may be the main issue with a short drive.

Further - in commenting on the Temp gauge as you spoke of, it does come up slowly, but if Ford is employing the same design as my 2007 Mustang - Gauge is actually reading head temp and not coolant temp. In this case all fluids would be cooler than head and what gauge is showing.
Yes you are attempting heat up 15% more oil then your 05 and your most likely doing it with a more efficient drivetrain. You no longer have the drag of the engine fan pulling on the engine increasing load.

You are sort of right on the temp issues. It does slowly come up but it's the ECM saying that on the L to H range it's low on the spec it is flashed to see. IE If the engine has been on for 2 minutes and it sees other inputs such as IAT, ECT and TFT low then it will say your oil pressure is "normal" for that specific operating range. After say 10 minutes if the oil temp has not come up the ECM will then command the display to read "low". Hopefully that makes sense.

Your also mentioning head temp, your ECT maybe getting so say 180 degrees which isn't bad but your EOT may only be 105 degrees. Does that make sense now as to why you have condensation in the oil cap?
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:26 AM
svfetter svfetter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montecarlo31 View Post
Yes you are attempting heat up 15% more oil then your 05 and your most likely doing it with a more efficient drivetrain. You no longer have the drag of the engine fan pulling on the engine increasing load.

You are sort of right on the temp issues. It does slowly come up but it's the ECM saying that on the L to H range it's low on the spec it is flashed to see. IE If the engine has been on for 2 minutes and it sees other inputs such as IAT, ECT and TFT low then it will say your oil pressure is "normal" for that specific operating range. After say 10 minutes if the oil temp has not come up the ECM will then command the display to read "low". Hopefully that makes sense.

Your also mentioning head temp, your ECT maybe getting so say 180 degrees which isn't bad but your EOT may only be 105 degrees. Does that make sense now as to why you have condensation in the oil cap?
I think I understand what you are saying but not too familiar with some of the sensors you speak of.

I have learned a lot from my 2007 Roush Mustang. I learned that the temp sensor is reading Head Temp. I have a scan gauge on that car as well as a Set of analog Roush Gauges which includes coolant temp and Oil temp.

I was surprised at how long it takes the Oil temp to come up on the Mustang which would certainly explain what is going on with my short trip to work on cold days with the Expedition. I also noted that the actual coolant temp runs 10 to 15 degrees cooler than the Head Temp. With a stock 196 thermostat the temp displayed on my scan gauge will show anywhere from 188 to close to 200 depending on outside temp. Actual coolant temp will be 10 to 15 degrees under that.

I had thought about a 180 stat for the Mustang, but after seeing the actual temps with the gauge feedback, don't think it is necessary. And have been advised against it. But Hi-Performance driving and just watch all those temps go up quick !!!

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:26 AM
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