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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:40 PM
expeditionph expeditionph is offline
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Ford Expedition 2001 Battery Drain Fuse #15, #14, GEM

I have a 2001 Ford Expedition, 4x2 4.6L

I have a Constant Parasitic Drain of .28 A, 280ma

I have followed the steps to the T in the ford service manuals.

Here is the case.

Test Scenario- Car off, all doors, hood everything closed, keys out of ignition

I tested all fuses and relays, with the series dc amp test.

1. When I pull Fuse #15,
(#15 = Stop Lamp Swith {Speed Control, Brake Shift interlock} GEM Module, RABS Module) 5 amp
It goes to .02a, 20ma
I put back Fuse #15

2. When i pull Fuse #14,
fuse 14 (Battery Saver Relay, Interior lamp relay)
It goes to .17a, 170ma
I put back Fuse #14

3. I pull the battery saver relay
It goes to .17a, 170ma
I put new Battery Saver relay
Test again It goes to .17a, 170ma

* Did i close all doors hood and keep the multimeter connected YES
* did i wait 1 hour between test, including new battery saver YES
* New Battery Installed.

Tested Brake master cylinder CC deactivate switch by unplugging no change.

Tested Brake switch, removed connector no change in amps.

No Fuses are blown, all fuses are intact.

Things not working on Car.
Rear Wiper, - Ensured in seated position, pulled all fuses, disconnected motor everything related tested tested no drop in draw

Air bag light is on - only when key in ignition and started

Converted from Air suspension to Springs - master switch off under passenger dash, fuse pulled permanently.

Radio - cut memory wire just to be sure, went down 5ma only, not the issue

Cruise Control not work - ford dealer says its works and not code flashing, but it clearly does not work. I disconnected the deactivation switch on the master cylinder, no change in draw.. again pulled all fuses.. Cruse control never worked since i bought it 2 years ago.

Brake Switch - tested, by depressing brake, went up to 6 amps, all brake lights came on, shift lock working propery, after removing foot from brake went back to 280ma draw,,,Disconnect all brake swtich connectors, not change in draw..
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:45 AM
projectSHO89 projectSHO89 is offline
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:39 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expeditionph View Post
I have a Constant Parasitic Drain of .28 A, 280ma

1. When I pull Fuse #15,
(#15 = Stop Lamp Swith {Speed Control, Brake Shift interlock} GEM Module, RABS Module) 5 amp
It goes to .02a, 20ma
I put back Fuse #15

2. When i pull Fuse #14,
fuse 14 (Battery Saver Relay, Interior lamp relay)
It goes to .17a, 170ma
I put back Fuse #14

3. I pull the battery saver relay
It goes to .17a, 170ma
I put new Battery Saver relay
Test again It goes to .17a, 170ma
20+170=190ma out of your 250ma, leaving only 60ma to yet be accounted for. You didn't mention the draw tests for the under hood fuse box. So what is it you don't understand?
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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r2millers r2millers is online now
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After market alarm system? Ck the glove box switch to ensure the light shuts off when closed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:51 PM
pdqford pdqford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expeditionph View Post
1. When I pull Fuse #15,
(#15 = Stop Lamp Swith {Speed Control, Brake Shift interlock} GEM Module, RABS Module) 5 amp
It goes to .02a, 20ma
It seems to me that this is the circuit with the excess draw if pulling the #15 fuse brings the draw down from 280ma to 20ma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expeditionph View Post
Tested Brake switch, removed connector no change in amps. .
If you removed the BPP connector and you are still reading 280ma the problem is between the #15 fuse of the CJB and the BPP.

In other words, you read 280ma with fuse #15 in and it drops to 20ma with fuse #15 out, this is the circuit with the big draw. If you then put fuse #15 back in and move on down the circuit to the BPP switch, disconnect the switch, and it still reads 280ma, the big draw is some place between the two points.

The problem doesn't have to be in a device (i.e, switch, wiper motor, radio, etc.), it could be in that wire running from fuse #15 down to the BPP switch. It may be pinched someplace and has found a weak connection to ground.

To verify this, remove power from this circuit (remove fuse #15), then disconnect the BPP switch. Check for voltage at the white wire at the BPP switch to verify that power has been remove.

Then switch over to ohms and see if there is any continuity between the white wire at the BPP and ground. If there is, that's the parasitic draw.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:53 PM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqford View Post
It seems to me that this is the circuit with the excess draw if pulling the #15 fuse brings the draw down from 280ma to 20ma.
Either you misunderstood what he wrote or I did. I took it as he pulled the #15 fuse and then connected an ammeter across the fuse terminals and read a 20ma draw.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:38 PM
expeditionph expeditionph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alloro View Post
20+170=190ma out of your 250ma, leaving only 60ma to yet be accounted for. You didn't mention the draw tests for the under hood fuse box. So what is it you don't understand?
Its 280 then goes down to 170, with fuse 15 in, and fuse 14 out... so its about 110 left drawing..

now if ford standard is 50ma, but i know by pulling #15 it drops to 20ma, so i am considering 20ma the base, (note i have pulled radio memory wire out)

so 110 - 20 we are about 90ma draw after yanking the #14, in which i found that the battery saver relay is the culprit... will explain end of blog
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:50 PM
expeditionph expeditionph is offline
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Ok

I want to tank you all for your inputs, all great great stuff and big big help..

In fact i paid for justanswers.com, and your guys responses were more detailed...

Ok so here is what i did..

I replaced the Battery Saver Relay first of all.

This time after telling myself, i waiting for 40 mins to an hours for the GEM to power down, i told myself well, why not 2 hours...

So i left the multimeter in series and went to the store to buy parts for making a fuse bypass switch, as i was just going to switch off #15 when not using the car, until i get some bucks together to have it done..

Anywho, got back home, made the fuse bypass harness, and then went out to check the meter and it was at 68ma and dropping.

I can live with 60ma i am sure it sure PATS or something because that theft light blinks occasionally...

To make a long story short, and to advise the world...

Waiting 40 mins, or one hour will simply not do it, When this problem occurs, Hook up the meter, make sure everything off and walk away for 2 hours...

So not 40 mins, not 1 hour, WAIT for 2 hours, if it doesn't go down, then go to the next step...there's surly a issue.

All the blogs, forums, even the ford service manual says wait an hour, well i hope i proved that to be wrong...

Additionally, in thinking about it, lets say it wasn't the battery saver...

i live in a place where there is lots of kids, and i know they always pushing that dang keypad on the driver door for the combination entry..

Well if the car sits for 6 days, and you push that keypad several times a day, it draws 8 amps in lights for 3 mins, but dont forget the computer has to power down for 2 hours again, so 8 amps 3 mins, then 300 ma for 2 hours, times 10 times a day times 6 days, i am sure there is a math to a three year old battery that that is probably the problem of the drain.

Anyone want to tell me how to turn off that keypad without throwing fault codes, Do i just disconnect the harness in the door..

Let me know..
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:42 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expeditionph View Post
Well if the car sits for 6 days, and you push that keypad several times a day, it draws 8 amps in lights for 3 mins, but dont forget the computer has to power down for 2 hours again, so 8 amps 3 mins, then 300 ma for 2 hours, times 10 times a day times 6 days, i am sure there is a math to a three year old battery that that is probably the problem of the drain.
3*10=.5 hours/day*6 days is 3 amp hours.
3*8amps=24 amp hours

2*10=20 hours/day*6 days is 120 amp hours.
120*.300=36 amp hours

24+36=60 amps hours over the 6 days. That's just under 7% drained from an average 900 AH rated battery.

Any half way decent battery should be able to handle this type of drain. If yours is going dead then it probably time for a new battery.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:47 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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If you feel the battery is good and perhaps these figures under-estimate the actual current draw, you can always plug in a solar charger to keep the battery topped off.

Like this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dt...63?seid=srese1
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:10 AM
projectSHO89 projectSHO89 is offline
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If it doesn't go down after the mandated 40 minutes, you do have a problem. It should not be necessary to wait 2 hours.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:34 AM
pdqford pdqford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
If it doesn't go down after the mandated 40 minutes, you do have a problem. It should not be necessary to wait 2 hours.
+1.

I thought I had a current drain on the Navigator. I have a Graphing Multimeter - hooked it up between the negative battery cable and negative battery post and let it graph for an hour plus. This was a couple of years ago, but as I remember there was about a 50% drop in amperage draw after about 25 minutes and then another drop around 45 minutes to, IIRC, something like 42ma. (Wish I could find a serial cable so I could print out the graph. )

If you have to wait a couple of hours, you may have a marginal short to ground that, as it warms up, the resistance may increase causing the ground to slowly go away. Note: that's only my SWAG!)
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:34 AM
 
 
 
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