First off, I have been watching these boards for about a year, but I THINK this is my first post..if its' not, then I apologize.

Here's the situation: My wife came up Pregnant (don't it always start like that?), and she wanted something other than her sportscar to haul the mini-me around in, so I gave up a few toys, and we began looking for an Expedition. She found one in January in Boston (I'm in KC) that had a salvage title, but only had 45k on the odo. It's an EB, 5.4L, 4X4. The truck ran fine until about 2 weekends ago, it started spewing radiator fluid all over the starter and passenger exhaust manifold. I knew from reading the boards that the passenger side heads have a sealing problem, so I looked around, and it appeared to be coming from the rear of the Passenger Head.

I called my local Ford dealership who told me $1700 for updated-casting heads, plus $950 Remove/Replace. I don't have the money, so that option's NIL. I ask the guy at Ford whether I can just have the head planed. He said "We cannot plane the heads." I asked him whether they COULD be planed. He repeated what he said. I asked him, if HE knew of anyone planing the heads before. He told me that his F150 had the same problem, and he had the passenger head planed, and it sealed up without any more problems, but that the Dealership could not warrantee a planed head, so they coul not do any of the work. I asked him how many hours were billed again R/R. He said 17.

I began to entertain the idea of taking the head off myself and having it planed, the reinstalling it. I asked a couple of other local mechanic shops about it. The FIRST thing they both said was "DONT do it yourself"...which I expected from a shop. But then they said something I DIDN'T expect..."And WE Don't want to do it!". They made the R/R on these heads out to being something that requires a Young Priest and an Old Priest. I called Ford back, and they said that it was true, it's nearly impossible to get the heads off with the motor in the vehicle, and it's nearly impossible to get the motor out with the cab of the vehicle on the frame (in fact, they told me that on F150's, they remove the bed, unbolt the cab and slide it back a few inches to unbolt the top two bellhousing bolts to pull the motor to do this job).

Well, I still didn't have the $2600 for them to do it, and the mechanics shops wouldn't give me a price (they told me it would START at $1500 for the R/R if they didn't run into any problems).

I like a good challenge, so I cleaned a spot out in the garage, and last friday I took the motor apart. I pulled the radiator and then the airconditioning coil out, then pulled the throttlebody assembly out as one peice, the upper and lower intake out as another peice, the timing chain cover, then the valve cover (which was the tight part), and then the head. It took about 6.5 hours of full-time work to get the head out. I took the head in yesterday morning to be planed, and went to order my new head bolts (the old ones are not reuseable) from Ford. The Parts Manager at Ford heard that I was doing this on my own and gave me cost on all of the parts. All of the gaskets, bolts and advice cost me $153.70. O'reilly's wanted $200 for the gasket kit, then the bolt kit from FoMoCo would have been $72...so they saved me quite a bit. The head is being magna-fluxed, cleaned, and planed for $65. I am paying an extra $10 for them to remove the cam and whatever they need off, then replace it after planing. So I am getting out of this for around $300 after an oil change and tool rental (I only had to rent the fan-clutch remover from O'reilly's).

I have another EB Expedition to use as reference when putting all the hoses and lines back on. I have the Haynes manual, but it doesn't show that stuff very well.

What I'm wondering is if anyone on here has tried this before? What luck did you have getting it to seal back up? Did you have to re-torque the bolts (even after indexing them) after the gasket was "run-in" (warmed up)? Did you have any problems getting the intake to seal up, or the timing chain cover? Anything I should look for when putting this thing back together? Also, if anyone has any pics of their engine...I need CLOSEUPS of the top of the engine and engine bay. I need to see where all of the hoses and vacuum lines that I took off go, in case I can't remember after a week where they want. Thanks!

The 'hopper

 

Hi Grashopr

I've done quite a few of these now.
I dont pull the box and slide the cab back....I pull the whole body off
It's not really as scary as it sounds. In 2 hours I can have the cab lifted and the rolling chassis sitting there ready to work on the engine. You do need a good 2 post hoist to lift the body though.
Did you pull both valve covers off to get the timing cover off?
I've seen guys not pull the drivers side valve cover to save some work but it's not worth it.
I've heard of people planing the heads with good success.....as long as they dont have to remove more than a few thousands of an inch. Ford tells us not to plane them but to replace them. They say that a machine shop cant get the correct finish on the sealing surface. Most machine shops seem to make them much smoother than the original finish
Ford also tells us not to replace heads with the engine in the truck. They say it cant be done without damaging the heads or gaskets because you might slide the head into place instead of putting it on squarely.
No you dont have to retorque the head bolts after you're done. Make sure you follow the instructions in the manual for tightening the bolts. They are torque-to-yield bolts and arent tightened like normal head bolts.
The intake gaskets and timing cover gaskets seal up easily. make sure you take the old intake gaskets along when you pick up the new ones. It seems like the catalogs have some bad listings.
Make sure you follow the manual very closely when it comes to setting the cam timing and putting the sprockets on. Pay attention to which direction the bottoms sprockets go on or the chains will rub together and destroy the engine.
I'm not sure how you'll hold the cams etc without the special tools though but it seems like most guys figure out some way to do it.

 

Thanks for the reponse....I have a few questions, still, though:





The problem with this is that I'm working on an Expedition...do you still remove the body? Because I would think that removing the Expo body would be more difficult than just a couple of hours work....

Quote:

Did you pull both valve covers off to get the timing cover off?
I've seen guys not pull the drivers side valve cover to save some work but it's not worth it.

I didn't pull the driver side valve cover because removing it would involve pulling the drivers side exhaust manifold and the power steering reservour (sp) to get it off. Is it NOT possible to get the timing cover gasket to seal up properly with the valve cover still on? Hopefully it will still seal up. The chances of it not sealing up and me having to take that valve cover off and replacing the gasket after the truck is back together seems to be a safe bet to me, but I may end up eating my words on that one.

Quote:

I've heard of people planing the heads with good success.....as long as they dont have to remove more than a few thousands of an inch. Ford tells us not to plane them but to replace them. They say that a machine shop cant get the correct finish on the sealing surface. Most machine shops seem to make them much smoother than the original finish

That's EXACTLY what Ford told me. The head shop, however says that they have done many of these heads, and that they aren't as hard to resurface and reinstall as FOMOCO makes them out to be. I'll find out tomorrow morning...we're beginning the reinstall at 8:30a.

Quote:

Ford also tells us not to replace heads with the engine in the truck. They say it cant be done without damaging the heads or gaskets because you might slide the head into place instead of putting it on squarely.

Have you ever had one damaged while reinstalling it? I understand that it's going to be tight, but if it's going to be THAT tight, I may pull some more of the A/C items to gain a few more inches of clearance before trying to reinstall the head.

Quote:

No you dont have to retorque the head bolts after you're done. Make sure you follow the instructions in the manual for tightening the bolts. They are torque-to-yield bolts and arent tightened like normal head bolts.

Did you "Radius" your bolts after torquing them down? The manual says 85' (degrees) of rotation AFTER torquing them down...did you do this?

Quote:

The intake gaskets and timing cover gaskets seal up easily. make sure you take the old intake gaskets along when you pick up the new ones. It seems like the catalogs have some bad listings.

I already have my gaskets, but they look like the stockers...did you put anything on the gaskets when installing them (the timing chain cover, intake-to-head and valve cover gaskets, I mean) like liquid gasket material or anything? The gaskets look like they are made from soft material, so maybe they are meant to just be installed without any liquid gasket????

Quote:

Make sure you follow the manual very closely when it comes to setting the cam timing and putting the sprockets on. Pay attention to which direction the bottoms sprockets go on or the chains will rub together and destroy the engine.
I'm not sure how you'll hold the cams etc without the special tools though but it seems like most guys figure out some way to do it.

I have NO idea what your talking about here. I marked my chain on the link that was lined up with my cam sprocket before I loosened the tensioner. Then I marked another spot on the sprocket, and the link that was lined up with that spot. Then I took the tensioner, guides and chain off, and zip-tied it close to the sprocket, so it can't rotate on the crank sprocket. Then, I removed the head. THEORETICALLY, if the crank hasn't rotated, and I line up the marks, the cam should be in the same place it was when I took it apart when I reinstall the chain and tensioner. I didn't take off the bottom sprockets at all (was I supposed to??? )

Thanks again for the response!

 

I did an Expo a couple months ago. The part that took the longest was removing seats and pulling up carpet to get at the body bolts. I think it took about 3 hours to get the body off.


You dont have to remove the exhaust manifold to get the left valve cover off but you do have to remove the PS reservoir. The 2 bolts at the bottom of the bracket are a bit of a pain but with a loooong extension through the inner fender with a swivel socket on it it isnt too bad. If you dont remove the valve cover it seems like the valve cover gasket doesnt go back together very well.

I dont think I've ever seen a head damaged while installing it but Ford thinks it's a common enough occurence that they now tell us to definately not do the head with the engine in the truck.

The head bolts are "torque to yield". Rather than just tightening them up a certain amount they actually want you to tighten them to stretch a certain amount. The manual says this.....
Tighten the LH and RH bolts in three stages, in the sequence shown.
Stage 1: Tighten to 40 Nm (30 lb-ft).
Stage 2: Tighten an additional 90 degrees.
Stage 3: Tighten an additional 90 degrees.

All the gaskets go on dry except for a small bead of silicone where the parts join together such as the corners of the timing cover where they meet the oil pan and block and the top of the timing cover where the valve cover meets it.

As long as you're absolutely positive that the cam and crank havent moved at all you can just install the timing chains the same as you took them apart. Only problem is that your head was apart so the cam will no longer be in the same place as it originally was. Hopefully you marked it well enough that you can get it all to line up again properly


Let us know how it goes

 

Thanks again...as far as the cam moving....it really doesn't matter, does it? I mean, if the crank hasn't moved, then when I put the head back on, I should just be able to rotate the cam by hand to where the marks that I made on the cam line up with the marks that are still on the cam chains...right? I mean, as long as the marks still line up, and the crank hasn't rotated, then the cam should be at the same degree in it's rotate when it goes back together as when I took it apart..right?

Also...can you elaborate on what you meant by where to put the silicone? I wont feel bad if the valve cover that I didn't remove doesn't seal up 100% and I have to replace that seal after I get it all back together, but if the timing cover doesn't seal up, or the intake leaks..I'm gonna be pretty pissed cause there's allot more to take off to get to those gaskets to redo this...you know?

Thanks again

The 'hopper

 

Okay..we got the head, lower and upper intake and timing chain/runner/tensioner arm/tensioner and timing chain cover back on in about 3 hours this morning. everything seemed to seal up well, and everything still lines up . We put the fuel rails back on, and started to reinsert the coil packs, but noticed that they had to be taken out and reinstalled AFTER the valve cover goes on . Tomorrow morning we start in on the water pump, lower crank pulley, power steering pump and exhaust manifolds. I'll check back in after I've seen it all line up.

The 'hopper

 

so are you having fun yet?

 

The only horrible part was coming to the realization that I have no way of marking where all the hoses go...and that I would have to find another way of putting the vacuum lines back together correctly. I have always had confidence in my mechanical abilities, but all of the negative propoganda I heard from the mechanic shops in my local area had me second guessing whether I could do this. Granted, I still haven't checked my sealing under pressure, but it looks as if everything is going to go back together good. If I could just find some photos of hte vacuum lines, I would feel allot more confident about the job as a whole. So far, I'm only missing 2 bolts (the crank trigger sending unit bolt, and one bolt from the timing chain cover).

Thanks

The 'hopper

 

The vacuum hoses are really pretty easy to hook up. They are all formed and shaped in such a way that they only easily go together one way. I think you'll find it's not a big deal.

 

Alright, it is 99.9% back together. The hood is still off, but other than that, everything that I can bolt up is bolted up. I just have one problem: There is an aluminum fixture pointing out of the back of the intake manifold that looks as if a hose was connected to it. I cannot find a hose, or another open hole where that hose would have connected to anywhere. The fixture is pointing STRAIGHT out the back of the intake manifold..directly behind the throttle body assembly. There is an apparatus directly behind the throttle body that has some hoses connected to it that point towards the drivers side, the thing I'm talking about is behind that apparatus. Any ideas?

The 'hopper

 

How big is the fitting that's open?
It sounds to me like where the hose to the PCV valve goes on.

 

Well, I mistakenly used the hose that went from the drivers side valve cover to the plastic intake air dam housing...so it's probaby about an inch diameter.

Phil

 

Head Job? Anyone Do Their Own...

edited for questionable content.

 

Good news and Bad news.

The good news is that it runs (insert 1930's film of Dr Frankenstein proclaiming "IT'S ALIIIVE! IT'S AALLIIIIVVVVEE!!") and when at high RPM, the valves and the pistons do not come in contact with one another ( my timing control system when taking off the timing chain worked !!).

The bad news is that it wont idle. I still have not located the mystery hose that goes in the back of the intake, and I have a 'hose-to-nowhere' that comes off of the "T" from the PCV valve on the passenger side valve cover.

The hose and the spout on the back of the intake manifold are both sucking MAJOR air...and when I plug them, it runs PERFECT. The problem? The hose from the PCV valve is neither the right size, nor long enough to reach the spout in the back of the intake manifold...any ideas?

The 'hopper

 

Sounds like it's time to find another truck the same and compare.
Good to hear that it runs though