Hello,


i was just watching this really interesting commercial clip on

youtube:


and i was wondering again when ford will go fully boxed on the heavy series, since the Silverado is fully boxed now for 2 Years and the Dodge Ram is fully boxed since the early 2000's.

And before the argument about flexibility vs. stiffness is coming up again, check what the military is buying, the Mercedes G-Class, the Bucher (Mowag) Duro, the Hummvee, the Bremach T-Rex and even the MAN SX or Tatra Force series which are 8x8's designed for a GVWR of 90.000Lbs - all of them are using a fully boxed frame (singular pipe-frame in case of the tatra) and all of them are praised for the durability of their stiff frames.

And since Ford is the only one of the big three who offers a really heavy duty offroading truck, by selling the F-350 4x4 with a single rear wheel axle, this company could really built a truck that puts the Dodge Power Wagon and its crappy 8500lbs GVWR to shame.

And it would be quite easy to, they already using boxed front parts on the F-350 with a massive dimension, so why not boxing the rest of the frame which would be especially nice if they go fully hydroformed as well.

Greetings


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I don't think they will. Way too many disadvantages. Maintaining the inner frame, mounting to the frame, running wire harnesses, additional weight factoring into the trucks legal class just to list a few. The main reason people like boxed frames is to handle more weight right? By boxing a frame, the GVWR would go up. But the added weight of the truck its self takes back some of that gain when figuring a GVWR. Those are facts that can't be argued, so I'm not starting a debate haha. But honestly here is a good video that explains a little bit of Ford's mentality. Sounds like they are basically accomidating it to be easier for uplifters to do what they please with the trucks and be able to mount everything to the frame much easier than a box frame.


I know its an old video, but it seems like they made up their minds and are sticking to it

 

Yeah and that all makes sense for the Chassis cab series, so the 350 dual rear wheel chassis cab and of course the F-450 and F-550. And it should always be considered, that a boxed frame is simply more expensive, because it requires either welding or hydroforming.

Btw. is the F-150 FULLY hydroformed or only the front part?

But i think for the F-250 and the single rear wheel F-350 it would make sense, as much as it does for Dodge with the 2500 and the 3500 Pickup (while the 3500 chassis cab is open c) or for Chevrolet with the entire silverade lineup.

 

Fully boxed frames are rust magnets. If Ford updates the Super Duty frame, I would expect a hydroformed frame. You get a stronger frame for the weight, tighter tolerances and less labor costs for making the frame.

 

From what I understand it is only the front that is hydroformed on a 150. And as far as the boxed frame making sense for Dodge and GM, I'm not sure those two companies know a whole lot about making sense when it comes to expenses... (Government Motors more than Dodge). haha. I guess I just dont see the need. I am happy with the way things are. Don't fix it if it aint broke.

 

scratch that. The 150 is all hydroformed

 

Well i just hope they do see the need some day, since the other competitors got that plus, would be awesome to see what Ford could do using their full-hydroformed-experiences and combining it with their really massive front an rear axles. At least for the F250 and F-350 single rear axle.

Rust is not really that much of an argument, as i statet above, there is really much experience with boxed frames in the world, i have seen Mercedes G-Wagon frames from 1979 which where in better condition than many open C channel frames from that time. Its all a question of rust protection and material quality.

 

I hope never! Toyota has boxed and rusted out frames. Chevy and dodge soon to follow as the years catch up to them.

 

Right. Dodge has been doing it for a while now, and they are starting to have rust problems. I bet the next 2-3 years they will be right up there with the yotas. Chevy might take a little longer since they havent been doing it as long, but they will get there. The only reason there are disputes on the topic is the mock up "ditch test" with the ramps and all that. I dont ever plan on pulling a load through a steep ditch so I dont want to pay even more inflated prices at the dealer because Ford changes their new trucks to box frames. Not worth it. As far as pulling on an even road, semi trucks all use open frames and I don't plan to out haul any of them.

 

G-Wagon Frame: 23 years old:

Rahmen Chassis 300GE Mercedes G G-Modell G-Klasse 463 kurz 2400mm frame 1990 swb | eBay

Bucher Duro: 19 years old:

Bucher Duro:

MAN Kat 1, at least 15 years old based from the homepage where the prozess of restauration was documented, frame got new paint, but no severe rost issues.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...pCCGMh8jx_J4EM


Just because some companys had some issues with rust because they dod not invest enough in protection, does not mean a boxed frame has to rust.

They are working well since years, even the Toyota 7 series Pickups only rust because of the lack of proper coating since they have been intendet to be sold first and foremost to dry nd warm areas.

 

Those are big trucks with 1/4" thick frames. The box frames they are putting in passenger trucks are no where near that thickness and have and will continue to rust out. If you live in the south and don't know about rust and what it can do you simply don't understand the destructive nature of it. A boxed frame especially from ford will not have any rust protection inside of it, it WILL rust out probably not within the warranty period but it will and there will be recalls. I am not guessing here, I am saying it WILL happen.

Not sure where you live but it is blatantly obvious ford does nothing to control rust.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...t-up-with.html

Even an open 1/4" frame will rust out in salt regions. Just imagine what a boxed frame that holds the salt in and half the thickness will do.

 

That's the difference right there....he's in Germany.

 

That's right, with all the Snow, Rain and Salt to get over iced roads you can imagine

As for the thickness: G-Wagon: 3mm, Bucher Duro (the old lighter version, which is shown in the picture) 5mm, only the MAN SX of course got a really thick frame (around 10mm, but this data is not for shure).

I guess the Ford F-150 has something around 3 mm as the G-Wagon, so a boxed F-350 would have probably around 5mm. Anyhow the thickness is not the important issue, its just the coating.

The Land Rover Defender only got a 2mm frame and LR is not known for their superior rust protection (they even got the aluminium outside planks of Defender to react with its steel frame....) but still there are many Defenders running in germany for more than a decade with the first frame, so if LR can manage to get this problem under control i guess Ford could do it as well.

 

But they won't. Ford has only gotten worse over the years for rust protection, I expect no change.





10 years on the first frame? What an accomplishment! Thats funny.

 

I wrote OVER a decade and that's quite the accomplishment for a british car, trust me Especially with a frame material this thin. As far as i know the boxed front part of a modern day F-350 is 6mm thick, if they would keep this strengh front to rear, fully boxed and hydroformed, so without any welding line weaknesses, it would resist the rust quite a time without ANY coating.

Of course if they reduce the thickness to 3mm, only hydroforming the front part and do a crappy welding job for the rear part, it will rust without really good rust protection.