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Old 03-09-2013, 08:54 AM
Sunbum47 Sunbum47 is offline
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How much added HP can I expect?

I know this site is the BEST for great information, so I thought I'd throw this question out for feedback. I'm sure it's been answered a million times before ... but I couldn't find the info quickly, so I figured I'd just ask again.
I just bought a 2013 F150, regular cab, short-bed, with the 5.0L Coyote V8. I was shocked how unbelievably fast this little truck was right off the showroom floor, but now I'm getting the itch to make a few minor modifications -- i.e. adding a cat-back dual exhaust and a cold air induction system. I'd like to bring it closer to the 400+ hp the engine originally had in last year's Mustang GT -- and also closer to the performance of those great old Lightnings. Yes, I know the Mustang has different cams, timing, etc. but I'm just looking at adding these two items -- no after-market chips, etc.
My major concern was not voiding the factory warranty, so I contacted Ford Racing to ask about ordering the Ford approved parts and having them shipped directly to my dealership for installation. They have exactly what I wanted.
My question is quite simple. My F150 5.0L now has 360 hp. What can I reasonably expect in terms of overall HP increase and foot pounds of torque increase from adding the low-restriction dual exhaust (with 4-inch exhaust tips) and cold air induction. The guy I spoke with on the phone at Ford Racing seemed very knowledgable and said I would immediately notice a substantial "seat of the pants" difference in overall performance. Also, an increase in gas mileage and substantial increase in torque, like 15 foot lbs at the rear wheels -- dyno certified.
Secondly, will the addition of these modifications have any negative effect on the long-term performance of my truck. In other words, will there be a trade-off that causes the truck to wear out faster?
Thanks in advance for any and all feedback, truly appreciate it.
bobm
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:11 PM
Beechkid Beechkid is offline
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The CAI= zero performance gain
Testand Corporation conducted an ISO standards test on automotive air filters which can be viewed at this link: Duramax Air Filter Testing * - Diesel Bombers

as far as the exhaust, well...ok I give it that it will sound better, you might & I mean might get a little more kick with a better flowing muffler but......the OEM unit flows very good.....the greatest restrictions in the exhaust system are the cats (which really are not that restrictive)....even the oem manifolds are really pretty good...although you would definitely see a few hp/tq gain with headers....otherwise, it is really a waste of $.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:43 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Same question here also.

/www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1228686-how-much-of-a-hp-boost-can-i-expect.html

Last edited by 85e150six4mtod; 03-09-2013 at 08:05 PM. Reason: take out smart arse question
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:24 PM
Sunbum47 Sunbum47 is offline
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No offense intended, sorry

I double-posted in two different forms just to make sure I was making the right decision by getting more than a couple of opinions. Didn't intend to step on any toes. Now that the consensus jury's in ... I'll save my money. Thanks.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:07 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Not a problem--I shouldn't have implied that it was. Good luck with your truck.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:49 PM
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I doubt you will gain anything but possibly a few HP way up high on the RPM's.
If you want to do much at all, get a programmer.

If you want really huge power, look into a supercharger or turbocharger kit.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:32 AM
ryhed ryhed is offline
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Ford approved supercharger, better heads and cams. A tuner will have to be removed for weeks to erase it's digital tracks if you have to take it in. A 50 shot sneaky pete nitrous system that can be easily hidden and removed if necessary. 3:73 or 4:10 gears will get you off the line. Things that will free up the horsepower you have already, Ram air intake, Electric fan in place of mechanical if not equipped already, lighter rims, aluminum drive shaft, weight reduction: lose the spare tire....ect.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:09 PM
Beechkid Beechkid is offline
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a follow-up FYI.....

Ford Racing does have CAI's & tuners that are for specific vehicles and "Do Work" as stated.......my initial answer to you was generic in terms that I did not "see" the Ford racing specific...also it should not void your warranty coming through Ford (assuming it does not state otherwise)
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:26 PM
svfetter svfetter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechkid View Post
The CAI= zero performance gain
Testand Corporation conducted an ISO standards test on automotive air filters which can be viewed at this link: Duramax Air Filter Testing * - Diesel Bombers

as far as the exhaust, well...ok I give it that it will sound better, you might & I mean might get a little more kick with a better flowing muffler but......the OEM unit flows very good.....the greatest restrictions in the exhaust system are the cats (which really are not that restrictive)....even the oem manifolds are really pretty good...although you would definitely see a few hp/tq gain with headers....otherwise, it is really a waste of $.

I would have to respectfully disagree with most of the above. I had a 2000 Expedition with the 5.4. After putting on a K/N CIA and a Gibson SS exhaust, you could feel a considerable difference in the seat of your pants. Not sure on the HP increase. Very glad I did it.

Now have a 2011 Expedition with the 5.4. Factory HP of 310. Did the same on the intake and exhaust plus added a aftermarket tune. Ford left quite a bit on the table with the 5.4 and the tune added 35 HP on regular gas. All considered, I went from the 310 to close to 350 HP and it has made a considerable difference in how the truck drives. Gas mileage has also improved by 1 to 2 MPG.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by svfetter View Post
I would have to respectfully disagree with most of the above. I had a 2000 Expedition with the 5.4. After putting on a K/N CIA and a Gibson SS exhaust, you could feel a considerable difference in the seat of your pants. Not sure on the HP increase. Very glad I did it.

Now have a 2011 Expedition with the 5.4. Factory HP of 310. Did the same on the intake and exhaust plus added a aftermarket tune. Ford left quite a bit on the table with the 5.4 and the tune added 35 HP on regular gas. All considered, I went from the 310 to close to 350 HP and it has made a considerable difference in how the truck drives. Gas mileage has also improved by 1 to 2 MPG.
I appreciate and understand what you are saying, but Ford also

If you look at the dyno charts from many of these supposed HP/TQ increases, they are typically around 5%-7% at peak rpm ranges…….and 5% is a standard deviation even amongst mfg dynos. If you go to this link:
http://www.fordracingparts.com/downl...ceTechTips.pdf

the engineers at Ford racing have a article on just exactly how these “tuners” play games with the hp/tq ratings, how calibration can cause misleading dyno results, & some of the “tricks” that are used to gain supposed power increases when in fact, managing your engine in perhaps the worst way possible….. and the most important item is……these “expert tuners” (at least most) do not have or choose not to test their results during actual vehicle motion (or simulation- such as a wind tunnel) as the oems do nor are these "mail order tuners' regulated like any other auto repair shop in the US...so if they "damage" your car...gee, sorry...sue me!

With regards to the intakes, if you look at the flow data, WIX filters flow 98+% of K&N and have a much smoother flow post filter plus excellent filtering, for a fraction of the price! If we set aside Testand Corporation's ISO certified tests.....including

“After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt.”

The aftermarket CAI design & claims are completely without any scientific data to back it up.......let me explain a little further.....

The 5.4 V8 for example if close to stock can only suck in a maximum of 480 cfm and a flat panel filter will flow 500 cfm, there is simply no way any CAI on a relatively stock engine can increase the air flow into the engine to "create" more power....true- many CAI's are rated to flow 900 cfm, but without a super or turbo charger or real ram air at 100+ MPH (actual travel speed required to generate a "ram air effect").....the engine can only suck in so much air regardless what filter is on it.

The OE’s have an excellent air intake system. What many view as an issue (is the plastic intake tube with its noise canceling design) actually increases air pressure. It is the same hydraulic concept used by fire fighters creating water supply where psi is low. By having the air cross the path at a 90 degree angle, the pressure is increased proportionally. Fire fighters use what is called a “4-way valve” or “Blake Valve” at the hydrant where the water is cycled through the fire engine (pump) and sent back into the valve crossing the water flow at a 90 degree angle. In this case it also acts as a sound canceling device! At low speeds, this can reduce the flow a tad (which is what most “feel”), but in terms of peak hp/tq, a good high flow filter is all that is needed. You can use a WIX OEM HP replacement filter in the OEM plastic manifold box and either remove the plastic tube and replace it with a piece of pipe/hose, etc or remove the tube completely and replace the tube by building an air ram type intake into the air box manifold (where the pipe use to attach)- make sure it terminates above the fan shroud to avoid water intake or fan induced pulsations.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svfetter View Post
I would have to respectfully disagree with most of the above. I had a 2000 Expedition with the 5.4. After putting on a K/N CIA and a Gibson SS exhaust, you could feel a considerable difference in the seat of your pants. Not sure on the HP increase. Very glad I did it.
Well, the 5.4L and the new 5.0L are two different engines. The vehicles in question are completely different too. You're not comparing apples to apples.

My old school pushrod 5.0L engine in my '90 Mustang GT saw a considerable increase in HP when I pulled the OEM exhaust manifolds and bolted on a set of JBA shorty headers. However, if I were to do the same thing (pull the factory exhaust and bolt on a set of shorty headers) to a stock Gen 2 Lightning (which as you know has the S/C 5.4L modular engine) it wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference.

Two different engines, same modification, two different outcomes.

There is no performance gains to be had on the L until the engine is pushing A LOT MORE HP than stock. Only then will an exhaust upgrade help.

You can't compare your 2000 Expedition to a 2013 F150 with the new 5.0L engine.

Stewart
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:57 PM
Beechkid Beechkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
Well, the 5.4L and the new 5.0L are two different engines. The vehicles in question are completely different too. You're not comparing apples to apples.

My old school pushrod 5.0L engine in my '90 Mustang GT saw a considerable increase in HP when I pulled the OEM exhaust manifolds and bolted on a set of JBA shorty headers. However, if I were to do the same thing (pull the factory exhaust and bolt on a set of shorty headers) to a stock Gen 2 Lightning (which as you know has the S/C 5.4L modular engine) it wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference.

Two different engines, same modification, two different outcomes.

There is no performance gains to be had on the L until the engine is pushing A LOT MORE HP than stock. Only then will an exhaust upgrade help.

You can't compare your 2000 Expedition to a 2013 F150 with the new 5.0L engine.

Stewart
Completely agree....however, basic laws of physics still applies.....if we assume the 5.0 is turning a max of 5500 rpm, it has a max CFM intake (assuming 100% volumetric efficiency- which no street engine has), places the max cfm at 480....the flat panel filter (the specific size in the trucks) flows up to 500 cfm.....


the formula......
Flat Panel: Length x Width x 6= Max CFM flow
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:40 AM
svfetter svfetter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
Well, the 5.4L and the new 5.0L are two different engines. The vehicles in question are completely different too. You're not comparing apples to apples.

My old school pushrod 5.0L engine in my '90 Mustang GT saw a considerable increase in HP when I pulled the OEM exhaust manifolds and bolted on a set of JBA shorty headers. However, if I were to do the same thing (pull the factory exhaust and bolt on a set of shorty headers) to a stock Gen 2 Lightning (which as you know has the S/C 5.4L modular engine) it wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference.

Two different engines, same modification, two different outcomes.

There is no performance gains to be had on the L until the engine is pushing A LOT MORE HP than stock. Only then will an exhaust upgrade help.

You can't compare your 2000 Expedition to a 2013 F150 with the new 5.0L engine.

Stewart

I certainly agree that the 5.4 and the 5.0 are two different animals. Even my 2000 that I had is different than my current 2011.

Further, I would certainly not disagree with the majority of the technical data presented.

However, all I am trying to point out is that in my two cases that the modification I have made did make a positive difference. I am only trying to provide real world experience to help someone make a decision. Some may not believe me but I know what I have felt in the seat of the pants and have seen a positive difference in gas mileage.

Will a person see my type of results on a 5.0 F150 ?? I don't know. I just think it's not quite fair to say that all of these types of modifications are without merit when I know there are many others like me who have gained from making these types of changes. Just my Opinion.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:40 AM
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