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Old 02-19-2013, 02:23 PM
21411 21411 is offline
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it is happening!

i found a source a block away from work. he produces ~40 gallons every couple of months. and he just wants me to get it off his hands. he also has friends in the local restaurant business. it is a slow start which is good cause all i have is a water heater and plans for filtration and truck mods.

i'm thinking use the water heater to store and heat the oil. get a small/ medium pump and pump the hot oil through a series of filters. with valves to allow me to pump the cleaned oil into my tank. de watering is my biggest concern. hopefully once i get better with this ill need more drums to store the oil as i will need 20 gallons a week to be full time.

can i use a vacuum pump (hvac style) to pull the water out? or will that pull the oil as well?

any and all help is appreciated. i am committed to this since i just acquired the truck and plan on keeping it a long time. so any investment will be paid back.

also the truck is my 1995 f350 cclb 7.3 auto 2x4.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:42 PM
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can i dead head my fuel lines to the banjo bolt?

since 2 fuel systems are best. can i run my separate fuel lines to a 4 way fitting, sorry, brain fart on the name, X fitting, instead of a T? i would put my check valves on the X fitting to minimize change over time and cross contamination. making sure this is as close to the banjo as possible. is there a fitting besides the stock fuel pump to utilize the banjo bolt?
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:41 PM
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first pick up went smoothly, except 40 gallons means 40 lbs. 1 and 1/2 cubies of 100% soy oil. so far. which i hope will be a nice amount for me to test and get my filtering system set up.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:01 PM
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i've been shopping using skiskyjasons post as an outline. i am planing on using a #12 sae to 1/2 npt fitting at the banjo bolt so i can utilize the stock lines, from there using brass fittings to my 2 check valves which will begin the seperate fuel systems. one will go back to the d2 regulator / pump loop. with baldwin filters pre and post pump.

the second check valve will begin the tih to the vo regulator, pump, filter area. then both in tih back to the tank being sure to loop the return line back to the pump, where i will make my own heated pick up loop near the fuel pick up.

90% of the fuel lines will be aluminum, the rest is the brass fittings going in the valley and possibly some steel braided lines around the filters and when the line goes to the motor to handle the vibration.

also i plan on using the rear tank for vo and later doing the 38 gal tank swap. i want to keep the bed open and not really advertise on the road. ps this is for my 1995 f350 cclb with the stock dual tanks. i'm hoping the ~25' from tank to engine will be enough to soak some heat into the vo.

are the goldenrod filters good for filtering / processing?

any thoughts/ questions/ concerns/ advise would be appreciated
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:40 PM
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90% of the fuel lines will be aluminum, the rest is the brass fittings

You can get aluminum fittings from McMaster Carr and I highly recommend installing them. Brass will polymerize oil even in small places like fittings. You will get flakes of skin in your injectors and IP if you use brass or mild steel fittings or lines.


Quote:
so i can utilize the stock lines

Once again, stock lines are almost always steel, which will react. Try to eliminate or reduce the amount of mild steel systems you use. Rubber or aluminum is inexpensive and will alleviate most of your polymerization issues.

Quote:
also i plan on using the rear tank for vo and later doing the 38 gal tank swap.

I assume you are talking about a new aluminum tank. I really wouldn't bother with filling your stock tank with veg. you will get more problems than you can imagine (solvent reaction with Veg in the tank, clogging your stock fuel lines with poly, etc). I know it's exciting to fill up your truck with grease, but believe me, you will feel a lot better if you leave your stock tank for diesel and wait until you have the new aluminum veg tank fully installed an operational before filling up on veg. And I assume you have a second diesel tank for starting your truck, so this 38-gal veg tank will be just for veg?


Quote:
are the goldenrod filters good for filtering / processing?
It'll work if you properly dewater in a separate settling or CF process. I use those filters all the time, but my dewatering process is weeks of settling separate from the filtration.



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i've been shopping using skiskyjasons post as an outline
SkiSkyJason is a god of veg conversions and his advice and posts should be thoroughly examined.
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1988 Ford E250 Club Wagon | 7.3 IDI + Hypermax Van Turbo Kit | C6+GVOD w/ MaxOD Deep Sump & Electric Temp Probe | Wrapped Pipes & Turbo w/ Auber Instrument EGT/Boost Gauge | 4" Dia. Alum Driveshaft | 4.10 Gears | 32-gal Custom Alum fuel tank w/ Centroid sending unit | NAPA Coolant Filter | Michelin LRR 16" treads | Chrome Warn Winch Bumper | 115W PV Array | Brass Heatercore shutoff valves | Aftermarket Steering Stabilizer | Synthetic Lube all-around.
1998 Jetta TDI.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:21 PM
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Thanks for clearing up about the fittings i did not search far enough. Not usuall a fan of mcmaster.

By stock lines i was refering to the banjo bolt back. Will i get skin if they never see sitting vo? Or do i need to remove the turbo and redo those lines also? I know it will be easier and assumed no ill effects from using the banjo and lines to the heads. And nothing i can do about the internal lines in the heads.

2 tanks issue - my truck came with 2 tanks a midship and a rear. I thought the rear was plastic. I may be wrong. But your reasons had little to do with material and seemed to be more about being used as a diesel tank for 20 years. That is good to know. I thought i could drain it, wash it and reuse. Ill beging the search for an aluminum tank for back there. Will a plastic tank polmerize on me?
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:33 PM
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Sorry for doubble post, phone is crazy.

I do plan on using diesel to start stop the engine. Being that the truck has 2 tanks stock seems to make this easier. It also has the fuel bowl supplied by a selector valve. The plan is to use that switch to switch fuels. But since there is a fuel bowl that holds much fuel and is prone to leaks and generally on the 94-97 forum everyone hates them. I would be doing an e fuel setup simmiliar to what later model superdutys came with. Skiskyjason described it very well once at least.

Basicly using 2 superduty fuel pumps and check valves to switch fuels. I just do not want to rely on a solenoid and timeing for the return. I would rather block the backs (front) of the engine and force feed the injectors.

Sorry back on point, the whole fuel system will be removed. It is 20 years old. With all new aluminum lines. And now thanks to you aluminum valves and fitting. No offence but many thanks.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:48 PM
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I suppose if the veg was flowing, you could go with steel lines, just as long as you purge out the veg every time you shutdown. But I think from what I gather in your second post, you want to deadhead your lines, which might make purging less efficient. I always run a combination of limited return (to retain heat), and full return (to purge air in the system in real time) when i did my veg systems on my Jetta and Van.

But going with Alum will make sure your system will be more compliant with veg. It's probably a better and more reassuring investment especially since you say they are already 2 decades old and could use an upgrade.

You probably won't need to replace the turbo lines since your selector valves will wash out the veg when you do your pre-shutdown purge. You wouldn't have such a large veg community swearing by their veg conversions if there was a large chicken skin problem in turbo or head lines.

My rear diesel tank is steel, as is my mid tank. I know a bunch of people on the Frybrid forum that had mid tank that were alum that were trying to sell. I think they were something like 30-some gallons, and they strap up where your current steel mid tank is installed. And if it is a frybrid tank, you get a intank heat exchanger.

I know lots of guys who used plastic aux boat tanks, like from West Marine or Northern tool, and they don't have any veg poly problems. But they don't have the steel tank level sending unit in there which I assume a stock diesel tank would have. If you cleaned your stock diesel plastic tank, and probably replaced your steel components in the tank with like say a "Centroid" aluminum fuel level sending unit, you should be ok with using the stock tank. But you should use a different selector valve and steel fuel lines than the stock diesel selector valves, since they probably won't handle the grease, temperatures, and there might me steel there too. Maybe a Hydroforce valve (I don't have any serials on hand) or a WVO Designs selector valve (never had a problem with them) would be a safer choice, with rubber or alum lines up to the IP.

I also assume you have a veg filter that is going to be located prior to the veg supply side of the selector valve, and if you do, you should get a heated filter head. Alum or Nickel plated will work, try to avoid copper FPHE's since heat + oxygen + veg + steel/copper/brass = poly. there was a guy a few years back who posted pics of his copper FPHE after thousands of miles of use. he cut it in half with a reciprocating saw and there was a lot of gunk.
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1998 Jetta TDI.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:10 AM
21411 21411 is offline
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now you have confused me with the turbo lines. do you mean the lines under the turbo? my plan uses about 8 inches of the stock lines. just the piece between the head and banjo bolt.

also what is a limited return? is there a valve? is that a veggie term for; plumbing the return back to the suction line and creating a loop of veggie through the pump and tih lines?

ill have to check out the frybird forum. will they mind if i do not plan on buying their system?
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:57 PM
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The Frybrid forum members won't mind. I never bought anything from Chris ever, and I'm a senior member. Frankly, you should probably post your plan there. The members are the old crotchety guys that do everything by the book and their systems LAST. You don't want to invest in a Diesel engine, invest in a veg 2-tank system, invest your time and money installing it, just to have the engine blown after 9 months due to a half-assed system. The Frybrid forum, i think, is the best place for WVO conversion knowledge, and as of recently, Chris has cleaned up some of the forum. Hopefully it'll keep going with this recent surge of momentum.

Yes, you are good with your plan on the turbo lines. There are some parts of the fuel system that you have to use steel, there is no way around it without major changes. Just get as much as you can with rubber or aluminum wherever veg is sitting.

Limited return... This is a loop where you can tee in the return fuel back to the supply side of the system without or in addition to returning it back to the tank. The advantage of a limited return is you don't waste that heat dumping back in the tank with just a full return. I've heard of some guys running just a limited return, and others just a full return. Some run a combined system. Some do it with three selector valves, but on my systems, I do it with just 2. On my jetta, i have a limited return and full return combo. I like that cuz I turn on my veg fuel pump, and quickly purge the air out of the system with the engine off. Plus I'm only running two 20 plate FPHE's instead of three, so the limited return saves me from losing my veg heat. On my van, I'm running a full return. Someday i'll put in a limited and full return combo, but as of now, i'm just getting the system perfected before making changes.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by genscripter View Post
The members are the old crotchety guys that do everything by the book and their systems LAST. You don't want to invest in a Diesel engine, invest in a veg 2-tank system, invest your time and money installing it, just to have the engine blown after 9 months due to a half-assed system.
^this is the reason i'm here and asking for advise, i like to think i'm a smart guy and could get it to run. but i am going to rely on this engine to get me and my family where we are going and back.

over the past few days i have had limited internet connection, so i've been stopping at many restaurants, they all say the oil is not their's that the land owner has a contract with the waste oil company and they handle it. i'm about to start making phone calls to investment groups with strip malls. but i'm worried the company will call epa when they come back and there is a simple barrel sitting out back.

thanks for all the help
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:35 PM
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ok so i poked around frybrid's site i'm not even past the "hey newby check this out" section and my head is spinning. backed up some idea, broke down others, and pretty much dropped me in the twilight zone. when the room quits spinning ill check back.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:16 PM
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your best bet for suppliers are small businesses, where the owner is the manager. And never never never ask about their oil during prime hours. 10am, 2pm are usually dead times and will be better for you.

Some people think dressing up will give a better impression. I kind of disagree, but it's only my opinion. people who look clean cut might get the owner to think you are a surprise inspection.

Don't yammer on and on about what you are doing. Be very concise and ask them for their oil. If they say yes, you are in. If they say no, just say thanks and leave. Don't waste their time. They will most likely be willing to entertain your request because you are offering to take it from them for free, and currently they are paying for it to be removed. I've actually got more suppliers from recommendations about other businesses from a place I walked into and the said "i can't, but I know another restaurant X that may..."

It takes a lot of time to find a place. And then it takes a lot of dedication to keep it. Other greasers will steal your grease, or try to convince the owner to give it to them. I've found the only thing that matters to the owner/manager is consistency. They don't want to deal with a greaser who abandoned the restaurant. Then they are stuck with finding a rendering company and it's more work for them. Once you have been with a restaurant for a few years, I've noticed they won't leave you even when another greaser even offers money. They rather stick with the guy they know, who always comes X times a month no matter what, rather than risk giong with a new hipster greaser that may abandon them in 4 months.
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1998 Jetta TDI.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:10 AM
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ok thats good info. i went at 10:30 dressed in a "nice" flannel shirt jeans and doc martins. i have a beard and try to look decent but normal.

the only guy i've gotten anything from owns my buildings deli, and has another site that deep frys, and he just offered to call a buddy with an italian restaurant for me. i'm hoping to find someone else like him and have a couple stings of relations out there, just in case someone goes out of business.

is used veg oil considered hazardous waste?

it seems everywhere i look i see the same brown oil dumpster laughing at me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:17 PM
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i recently found a new friend, he has a working processor and needs some help. that is the good news.

the maybe better or bad news; in reply to a craigslist ad, (usually start of bad news) a guy who manages a kitchen has offered 60 gal a week. i may need more friends. he has not said what he wants for it. i'm supposed to meet him at the restaurant to talk to him. he did not want to call me. which makes me nervous. also he responded within 15 min of posting the ad. what are the chances of that? usually that time frame results in goods being shipped to africa and payments from california. that is one thing. i'm worried about cops cracking down on bio brewers. this paranoia just recently set in. i'm in the chicago suburbs. i can't imagine its to much trouble to talk about bio diesel. and as of yet i have not made, used or touched any. what do ya'll think?
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:17 PM
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