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Old 02-02-2013, 04:30 PM
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Stinky's Stick-up

Well, I'm doing this in stages because... uh... I feel like it. I took a vid with Stinky starting while plugged in, and the smoke was nowhere near as bad as the last time I started him... plus all 8 fired off this time. I took the camera up front to catch the injector clicking, but that didn't happen... stage fright I guess. Well... I'm not about to wait for the truck to warm up just for the sake of a video, so in the garage he went.





Just to share how pathetic I've become, I took a vid of popping the stuff in the way of the VC. Yes... I did remove the CCV doghouse after I shut off the camera.

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Old 02-02-2013, 06:26 PM
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Yup, thats pretty pathetic alright. Just kidding, you take that apart like you've done it before, or maybe worked on a pit crew. So whats the plan? I know you have one. Was that my filter minder all the way from Jersey?
Jim.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:32 PM
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Tim Hodgson Tim Hodgson is offline
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1. My van smokes even more than that and I have decided not to install new injectors until I replace the fuel tank with a custom stainless steel tank;

2. It is classy that you outfitted the four guys in your pit crew with the same beanies and jackets;

3. For a guy that doesn't "wrench," I'd say you need a bigger challenge. So how about coming down to Sacto. and try those slick moves in the six inches between the fan shroud and the firewall on a 7.3L van?
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stinson 108-1 View Post
Was that my filter minder all the way from Jersey?


Yup... that's your Filter Minder.

GP pull: I use a fuel line adaptor that I bought from the Irish parts store (leftovers from the Hutch mod). Loosen the glowplug with a 10mm deep socket and spin it out with this tool.


Pop the sticks, clean, clean, clean... and throw an inspection camera down there.

#2 cylinder - 4, 6, and 8 look the same.



#2 cup - 4 and 6 look the same.



Not so much with #8 cup




Note the exhaust buildup from driving with a loose injector. I now have to replace it for two reasons.

I couldn't see the issue in #8 hole before because it's so far back, but the inspection camera saved me from doing this again in the near future. Diagnostic tools, guys... they make a difference.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:08 PM
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Is that crack in the cup or in the head leading down to the cup?

Is your white smoke from coolant or unburnt diesel?

Was your smoke video from before or after you found the crack?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:59 PM
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Thankfully, it's in the cup - below the area where the injector fuel o-ring makes contact. I was looking at exhaust gas getting in my degas bottle during my vacation, and this explains where it came from. As long as the injector was down and tight, the coolant and exhaust was separated. #8 would work its way loose and a small amount of exhaust gas would sneak past the copper washer and into the area of the cup where the crack was. Looking at the cup, I was unlikely to get a proper seal with the injector o-rings because of all that residue in there... so it has to come, out even if it wasn't cracked.

For once, I counted on my bad luck and I have a full cup replacement kit sitting on my bench. I wanted to avoid this ugly task, but here I am. Now that the injector is out, the coolant will leak into the cylinder, so I had to quickly drain all coolant. Again with the luck thing, I have 4 gallons of proper ELC coolant on the bench... and I never left the house today. I do need to get some distilled water, though.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:17 PM
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You know there's a guy in Seattle (BWST) doing the same thing right now?

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...look-at-3.html

I am going to look at the Harbor Frieght website to try to find the pressure tester that he recommends.

Also, Kel Varnson suggested that I pressure test my cups before I re-installed my injectors with new o-rings, but I didn't.

Now I wish I had, especially if you think your white smoke was coming from the cracked injector cup. I can't wait to find out.

But, I don't have fuel in the degas bottle. I just checked again. And I also used an inspection camera to look at the cups before I re-installed the injectors with the new o-rings. (Do you have an inspection camera recommendation?) But I only did the injectors on the driver's side. Because that's where the diesel appeared at the junction of the manifold to the up-pipe.

Could one have water leaking into the cylinder and creating white smoke without fuel in the degas bottle?

In my case, I am pretty sure that it was diesel leaking through at the junction of the manifold to the up-pipe and not water so probably my smoke is from unburnt diesel but I want to see if your smoke goes away with new cups.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:40 PM
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Uggg. What a mess you have had with these injectors. Hope this puts an end to your issues.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:19 PM
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Damn Tugly I'm gonna drink a beer for you and stinky. I ve read all you threads concerning this and I hope this is the last time you have to do surgery.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:49 PM
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Oh boy. Cracked injector cups are never fun. Never had this problem on my personal truck but I have seen it and had to repair it for some customers that came into my shop.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:25 PM
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Tugly, can you tell us about that injector replacement kit? Does it have the tools? I'm about ready to send my rentals back to Clay. Keep wondering if I should have bought them, but the cost is as much as AE, and I'd rather buy that.

Here's the HF pressure toolkit - very helpful for this job. I highly recommend pressure testing after installing the cup(s) after at least a 24 hour cure of the sealant. A little soapy water on a toothbrush swabbed around the top of the cup with 10-15psi of pressure should do it.

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Old 02-02-2013, 11:40 PM
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Leaning over and reaching..I dont know if you have a place(we live in the country with lots of property/open area),I took the track hoe and dug two holes the width of the front tires(just deep enough so that nothing underneath hits the ground),and when I pull the truck down into the holes I can RR the turbo while standing on the ground and not have to reach and strain.And its a 4x4 too....be sure to put that in your "need to know book"..Phil
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Hodgson View Post
Now I wish I had, especially if you think your white smoke was coming from the cracked injector cup. I can't wait to find out.

But, I don't have fuel in the degas bottle. I just checked again. And I also used an inspection camera to look at the cups before I re-installed the injectors with the new o-rings. (Do you have an inspection camera recommendation?)

Could one have water leaking into the cylinder and creating white smoke without fuel in the degas bottle?
I mentioned gas in the degas, but not diesel. The compression gasses and exhaust have a lot more kick to them than that li'l ol' coolant circuit... so soot goes there. I have soot lining my bottle, but no layers of fluids.

I don't think my white smoke was coolant, I haven't been losing any and the injector was sealed this time. I have other issues I must pursue.

As for an inspection camera, I found a doozy for a good price at Costco. I'm finding it hard to duplicate my purchase for somebody else, but surfing may yield results. I have a Whistler (the radar detector folk) GB7307 inspection camera. It records images and video to a micro SD card, it's small enough to look through the hole in the cup to see the piston (images above with cups on), and the probe is separate from the display/recorder. The video is transmitted wirelessly to the display, solving the wrestling match between keeping the camera at the correct point and trying to view the image. I can show more here tomorrow. Watch out for other models, many of them don't record or are not wireless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWST View Post
Tugly, can you tell us abou that injector replacement kit? Does it have the tools? I'm about ready to send my rentals back to Clay. Keep wondering if I should have bought them, but the cost is as much as AE, and I'd rather buy that.
I rented the same kit in December, but I discovered another issue with the injectors, so I shelved that. I figured this day would come sooner or later, so I just took the hit to the wallet for the tools. Good thing... it didn't take long for that precaution to pan out. So... if somebody nearby has a big cup issue, I'm the guy to handle 'em.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoCSU View Post
Uggg. What a mess you have had with these injectors. Hope this puts an end to your issues.
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Originally Posted by fordpride View Post
Damn Tugly I'm gonna drink a beer for you and stinky. I ve read all you threads concerning this and I hope this is the last time you have to do surgery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris123NT View Post
Oh boy. Cracked injector cups are never fun. Never had this problem on my personal truck but I have seen it and had to repair it for some customers that came into my shop.
Every time I fix something, it leads to the next thing. Seriously, I'm running out of old parts on the truck and I'm wondering if driving will be involved with PS SD ownership. I already have a hobby - sailing. If floats, it goes, and the whole motor (brand new one) can be replaced for 1/2 of what the injector/turbo upgrade is costing me. Now... if I just had a tow vehicle to get the boat to the water.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:31 AM
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Hmm.....So reading this, and seeing the evidence I present an explanation that might just answer all questions nice and neatly. Injector cup has been loose or cracked for awhile. The cup being loose is what has allowed the injector to loosen even with proper torque applied. Cup would seat, torque down, but after it was run for awhile cup would shift, change torque value, and whalla, loose injector. Some of your smoke is from the coolant leaking down, but my guess is the smoke is simply a little excessive PW at Idle, and a little tweak to your timing table based on EOT. Talk to your tuner about adjusting the SOI multiplier a bit. Bring the delay down a tad, and that should fix the smoke on start up. Now if its hazing like that as it warms up more, thats something that needs to be addressed in either your PW or your PW multiplier table.

Glad you found a problem that can/has caused all of your symptoms. Sucks that it is a bigger job than just swapping injectors, but you'll be alright. You've come a long way since we originally swapped your injectors out. PM me your availability in the next month, I may need to enlist your help with cup inspection myself, simply as a precaution.

Rest assured, replace your cups, and i'd be willing to bet my turbo on it fixing the loosening injector, and some of the smoke. However, you have to know that with bigger nozzles comes the chance of hazing at idle, especially when its colder out or it has sat for awhile.
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