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Old 11-12-2014, 07:23 PM
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:52 PM
Jymmm Jymmm is offline
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Replace fuel pump without dropping gas tank

This is what *I* did, your mileage may vary, do so at your own risk, this can be dangerous and you could die and just overall have a very bad day, don't be stupid, use common sense and good judgement, have a BC rated fire extinguisher at the ready, If you don't know or are not sure, seek professional assistance before hand including psychiatry if applicable, put the toilet seat down she'll appreciate it, Tofu is yucky, Got it? Good!


I have a 2001 Ford Expedition XLT, 4.6L 2WD, Standard suspension, 70K Miles.


Over a couple of months twice it didn't want to start, but eventually did after a few minutes.
These were cold mornings so I thought that had something to do with it.
Then the third time, nada. Just wouldn't start at all.

Fuel gauge is working.
Tossed on a code reader - no codes.
Tossed a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail - 0 PSI.
Checked the fuses and relays - good.
Checked the kill switch (at the passenger kick panel) - good.
Listened for a hum at the fuel filler - nothing.
Replaced fuel filter - wasn't necessary, but couldn't hurt at $10.

At the last connector closest to the fuel pump...

Connector C415M is the 14" long pigtail that goes to the fuel pump assembly.
It is located on the inside of the frame behind the LR tire.

PK/BK (Pink with Black Stripe) wire is +12VDC to the fuel pump,
BK (Black) wire is the ground to the fuel pump.

In this photo there are seven pins, the middle two bottom pins go to the fuel pump.
The top three are gold, the bottom four are silver in color.
When I first saw this I thought it was corrosion, but it's not.

http://i48.tinypic.com/29vcx1z.jpg

(For some reason if I try to make this display as an image, the post no longer word wraps.)


KEY ON, ENGINE OFF - Checked the voltage: 12V for 3 seconds, then 6V after that (weird but seems to be normal).
Ran a fused wire directly from the battery to the fuel pump - nothing.
Beat on the bottom of the fuel tank with a dead blow hammer - nothing.

Dealer wanted $1100 ($600 for the fuel pump + $500 labor), KBB value on my car is $3500, So for them to replace the fuel pump would be 1/3rd the cost of my car?! Other places wanted between $500 and $700.

I had just filled the tank so there was still about 20 gal of gas in the tank (around 160 lbs) and I didn't have any place to empty it to. I really didn't want to be under a 4000 lb car with a 6ft long gas tank with 20 gallons of gas sloshing around while being balanced on the top of a floor jack.

I even pulled the the trim and carpet from within the cab to see if there might have been an access hatch, or if I could cut one myself - nope (of course not, silly Ford Engineers).

The filler neck of the gas tank is on the long end, and closest to the rear bumper. If I lowered the rear end first (where the fuel lines/pump are), I'd have gas all on the ground.

Ok, screw it, maybe if I empty enough gas I can at least lighten the weight a bit. Went to try and siphon the tank, hose won't go in. then I found this video explaining why:




Someone suggested that I remove the hose from the filler neck and siphon from there. When I went to look, I saw that the filler neck was 4ft long pipe, then about 12" of hose, then the fuel tank.

THIS IS WHEN I NOTICED...
Hey, there is a LOT of room right above the fuel tank!!!

I dropped the spare tire, chocked the front tires, jacked up the left-rear tire about 3" off the ground, and put the axle on a jack stand and that gave me full access (well as much as possible that is) to the fuel pump!

Disconnected the battery and went in!

I would highly suggest the you try to clean off the top of the fuel pump (brush, compressed air, etc) as best as you can. This way there is less chance of anything falling into the open gas tank.

There are two fuel lines (you'll need the fuel filter release tool to remove them, the gold 3/8" one, $13 - 4 Piece Fuel and Auto Trans Line Disconnect Tool Set) plus two evap hoses.

Because of course the last fuel line is just 2" out of reach, I had to make a tool using 1/2" PVC pipe, 24-30" long. I cut a notch 3" long so it looks like the letter "C" when viewed from the end. I used a coping saw, you could use a dremel too. This allowed me to the place the removal tool on the line, then use the pvc pipe to push it all the way into the fuel line to release it. This also gives you a pivot point to use a long screwdriver to pry off the stuck fuel line once it's been released from the latches.

[Future photo goes here when I take one]

The way the fuel pump assembly is secured in the tank is with a 7" diameter plastic ring that screws on like a mason jar. It has tapered threads so never free turns till it's completely off. there are "grip tabs" on the outside of the ring every few inches.

I used an old (dull tip) 24" crow bar and a 2LB dead blow hammer to tap on these tabs until the ring came loose. A long and tedious process btw.

Click the image to open in full size.

Now, it's the gas fumes that like to catch on fire more so that the actual liquid. The small space right above the gas tank is enclosed so there is no air movement and the fumes can accumulate. BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT OPEN FLAMES OR SPARKS, like from hitting a metal crow bar with a hammer is a very bad idea.

I used a dead blow hammer for two reasons:
1) It's covered in plastic - no metal on metal sparking potential.
2) It exerts a force far greater than even a sledge hammer could to.

Once the ring is removed, you can GENTLY lift the fuel pump assembly out, though you might have to turn and lift a bit so you don't bend/damage the fuel sender float arm. Also, there is a gasket (green in my case) just under the edge of the rim of the assembly that you don't want to damage or let fall into the tank.


This is the top of the removed (YAY) fuel pump assembly:

Click the image to open in full size.


This is the fuel pump assembly with the new pump installed (you'll need to have two hose clamps as the factory ones are the permanent crimped non-removable type). You can also see the green gasket, it is not glued into place, just still stuck there from being compressed for the last 10 years so be sure not to muck with it or you'll have a hell of a time getting it aligned up when to you go to install it back in the tank - Wanna guess how I know this???

Click the image to open in full size.


The whole assembly is keyed and only goes in the tank one-way. There is even an arrow on the top of the assembly that face towards the front bumper.

Once you get the assembly back in the tank and aligned correctly, you'll still have to use the crow bar and dead blow hammer to screw it back in place. Be careful not to strip the threads when you first start to screw it in. It's a PITA to get it started, but just take your time and it'll go. You'll know when you've tapped it closed far enough when you can no longer lift the fuel pump assembly and it feels secure and solid.

Ok, sure, there might have been a better, faster, easier way, but this is what worked for me without having to drop the tank. Hopefully it can help out someone else.


Sidenote...

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD... NO MORE IN-TANK FUEL PUMPS!!!

I don't care that it keeps the fuel pump running cool (there are external fuel pumps that don't need this, it's just ford being cheap is all) and that you shouldn't have to ALWAYS keep 1/4 tank of gas to prevent from burning out the fuel pump, Ford Engineers could of added an isolated reservoir to the tank to accomplish this!

I did consider just adding an external in-line fuel pump...
1) At the time I didn't have one available to test it out.
2) I wasn't sure if it would fail smog/emissions testing.

I DO believe that it would work though. the internal pump only give a very slight resistance when sucked through, so it should be free flowing enough to use an external pump and just suck through the (dead) in-tank pump. But this could prematurely burnout the external pump.

There is a spot just above the fuel filter that an external pump would fit if you are so bold to try it.


Oh, if you happen to have a 2001 Hyundai Sante Fe laying around that you can harvest a fuel pump from, GO FOR IT! It's the same pump, just different plastic pieces.


If you happen to like this post and want to say "thanks", click here:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/re...php?p=12786465

Last edited by Jymmm; 02-02-2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:13 PM
Danny01Expo Danny01Expo is offline
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I'm going through this myself. I took up the rear seat to dismount a strobe controller.
It might be possible to cut a hole but if you do, it'll have to be through 2 layers of metal.
I don't know. Being that i'm dealing with it on a tar type of driveway, i'm paranoid about jack stands, and I have some heavy duty truck ramps, luckily my jack raised it up enough
to slide the ramps under.

The main reason i wanted to post was that there is a U tube video showing how to take a sharpie top and turn it into an unlocker for the brake line. I'm debating the external fuel pump idea, since I have a couple of them. First thing first though, test power at the pump and give it 12v. I figured I'd run a line from the trailer wiring connector with the parking lights on. Should be already fused, shorter, and easier. I've already verified the IFS is gettign juice and working properly.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:53 PM
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Jymmm,
You did a great job showing this changeout step by step.
It is a pain, but dropping the tank seems so much more work, especially when full.
It's such a common problem and you really spelled it out.
How does it feel to spend almost as much time, posting this, as to doing the actual job?
Thx for the effort.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:30 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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My question is, if there is sufficient space above the tank to access the pump, why not pull the carpet back and cut an access panel up there?
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alloro View Post
My question is, if there is sufficient space above the tank to access the pump, why not pull the carpet back and cut an access panel up there?
The question then becomes, how do you seal it back up to avoid moisture and noise issues, especially if it's not a flat surface?
I would be interesting to see if someone has done it this way and posted the results.
I know there are small marine access doors that are available at West Marine, etc.
Anyone?
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As my brother reminds me regularly... "Life is not a spectator sport."
2007 F-250, PSD, SW, CC, LB, 2 WD, 85k, coolant filter, DashBoss, 1999 Expedition 5.4 319k plus, 32' CrossRoads CrossTerrain 5th wheel Toy Hauler, 24' Chaparral Villain lll 598 ci
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:38 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r2millers View Post
The question then becomes, how do you seal it back up to avoid moisture and noise issues, especially if it's not a flat surface?
A 12"x12" piece of sheet metal, weatherstripping, and a dozen self-tapping screws come to mind.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alloro View Post
A 12"x12" piece of sheet metal, weatherstripping, and a dozen self-tapping screws come to mind.
This is what a lot of the 4th gen F body owner's do. I've already dropped the tank on the expy and it really wasn't bad IMO. To drop the tank in the trans am you have to remove the rear axle. I'll be cutting an access hole in it when the time comes.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSS View Post
This is what a lot of the 4th gen F body owner's do. I've already dropped the tank on the expy and it really wasn't bad IMO. To drop the tank in the trans am you have to remove the rear axle. I'll be cutting an access hole in it when the time comes.
The nice thing about a truck is pulling the bed off. As I recall, 8 bolts, hose clamp on the fuel filler hose, a couple of electrical connectors, a couple of helpers, and access is fast and easy.
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As my brother reminds me regularly... "Life is not a spectator sport."
2007 F-250, PSD, SW, CC, LB, 2 WD, 85k, coolant filter, DashBoss, 1999 Expedition 5.4 319k plus, 32' CrossRoads CrossTerrain 5th wheel Toy Hauler, 24' Chaparral Villain lll 598 ci
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Jymmm Jymmm is offline
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Writeup wasn't that difficult

Quote:
Originally Posted by r2millers View Post
Jymmm,
You did a great job showing this changeout step by step.
It is a pain, but dropping the tank seems so much more work, especially when full.
It's such a common problem and you really spelled it out.
How does it feel to spend almost as much time, posting this, as to doing the actual job?
Thx for the effort.

Thanks, I just couldn't find a writeup when I needed it, so I figured I'd save some grief for another poor ba5tard that had to deal with this crap.

I got the fuel pump for $25 USD off ebay from this seller: fabulousfinds08

http://search.ebay.com/181061095544

But I used my existing, good condition clean screen.
Just be careful with the little metal clip holding it on by a single plastic pin.


It wasn't really that difficult doing the writeup itself, as much as figuring out how to replace the intank fuel pump itself. That took almost a month.

I tried looking for ways to create an access hatch, but being double
walled, plus the fact that where you would need to cut a hole, the floor
bevels down 45 degrees right where the rear seat is, so I'm glad I didn't
even consider that option, I would have been in one hell of a mess trying
to seal that up properly.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:05 PM
killbill killbill is offline
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I just did the fuel pump on my 01. It took my brother in law and I 30 minutes to drop the tank and 20 minutes to put it back. I thought about just pulling the hanger out without dropping the tank, but I was worried I would bend the fuel float.
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:22 AM
rpatrick rpatrick is offline
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Connectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmm View Post
... so I figured I'd save some grief for another poor ba5tard that had to deal with this crap.
Well, I guess I'm that poor ba5tard!

Seriously though thanks for the writeup - I have to new pump from fabulousfinds08 laying on my kitchen counter to be replaced in my Expy as soon as I can get to it.

Quick question for you - the pump comes with a short pigtail that looks like you just spliced it in with crimp connectors.

Anything special hear due to being submerged in fuel? Will standard crimp connectors I get form Home Depot work or is there some type of special connector?

Just trying not to become a poor, charred ba5tard

RP.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Jymmm Jymmm is offline
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Crimping the pigtail wires to the new fuel pump

Hi RP,

I just used plain old butt slice crimp connectors.
I don't get the whole electricity and fuel thing either,
but if you look at the connector that plugs into the fuel pump itself,
the contacts are exposed to the fuel.

I left as much spare wire as I reasonable could, then just coiled it up.
That way if I needed to do this again in the future I don't have to deal with the wires being too short.

I did use T&B WT111M crimpers to crimp the slices though.
You will break the wire before it comes out of the crimp.

Not cheap, but these are THE BEST DAMN CRIMPERS EVER!
Snap-on, Klein, and others have clones of them but not as good IMO.
They come with a lifetime warranty too.

Thomas & Betts WT111M Plier Type Crimping Tool with Cutter for A, B, C and PT Non Insulated Terminals and Splices - Amazon.com Thomas & Betts WT111M Plier Type Crimping Tool with Cutter for A, B, C and PT Non Insulated Terminals and Splices - Amazon.com


As far as the charring goes, may I suggest a dry spice rub


Quote:
Originally Posted by rpatrick View Post
Quick question for you - the pump comes with a short pigtail that looks like you just spliced it in with crimp connectors.

Anything special hear due to being submerged in fuel? Will standard crimp connectors I get form Home Depot work or is there some type of special connector?

Just trying not to become a poor, charred ba5tard

RP.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:13 AM
rpatrick rpatrick is offline
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Thanks!

Thanks Jymmm - I figured it was that easy but it just seems really strange to have electrical wires in contact with gas.

Funny you mention those crimpers - I have the Channellock version and they do rock.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:44 PM
Gevans17 Gevans17 is offline
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Access panel for fuel pump swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by r2millers View Post
The question then becomes, how do you seal it back up to avoid moisture and noise issues, especially if it's not a flat surface?
I would be interesting to see if someone has done it this way and posted the results.
I know there are small marine access doors that are available at West Marine, etc.
Anyone?
Was under my 98 Expy today and found what appears for be an access panel directly over the fuel pump.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:56 PM
dmgctrl dmgctrl is offline
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First of all, thanks for the thought food, Jymmm!

My fiasco began while attempting to leave for work with the why-won't-you-start tirade.

After running the diagnostics and collecting myself after calling the repair shop ($600+, not including tow), I set about searching for parts and how to do the job myself. I happened across this thread, and spent one less day cussing and cleaning out the garage to find my tools. Given the cluster of posts, probably many more fuel pumps are going to fail sooner than later, so I thought my two cents might make it a little less painful.

If you are reading this, most likely you are about to embark on a mission that is DEFINITELY DOABLE, so don't spend a lot of time hemming and hawing and cussing like I did. The part about dropping the spare tire made it possible for me to sit upright behind the rear axle. Jacking and standing in front of the RIGHT REAR tire instead of the left rear opened the space between the rear axle and the bed enough for me to squeeze my torso through. I'm 5'4", 155# +-5, which made it fairly easy to do this from the ground. I figure someone taller could probably make this work, but unfortunately this doesn't exactly favor the girthy among us.

Anyhoo, I was able to reach all the important stuff without in-house improvised tooling, although I did buy the metal fuel line disconnect tool and spared myself and the neighborhood excessive cussing IMO (vs. plastic tools or the sharpie cap trick - definitely worth the $7+). Fortunately all the connectors came apart without much persuasion, which later led me to think this wasn't the first time the fuel pump failed (This Expy is my family's first used vehicle).

The major point of frustration (aside from having to do the job in the first place) is the lock ring. I got it moving with a dead blow hammer and a very large dowel, but I could see this was going to take nearly forever, so I sat at my computer, contemplating other tools when it dawned on me to use this tool:

6" Quick Release Bar Clamp

The progress I made using this tool probably savedÖa lotÖof time and frustration. Granted, I had to use two hands to hold it against the lock ring as I turned it, but the lock ring seemed like it came off really fast. I cleared the ring of the sender assembly before attempting to lift the assembly out. Of note Ė when I removed the sender assembly from the tank, I rotated the assembly roughly 180į as I lifted gingerly, and it cleared the opening rather nicely. Replacing the fuel pump itself was cake compared to the rest of this mission. I am now fighting with getting the lock ring to thread properly, and itís winning. Most likely I will be borrowing OTC-6599 (tool) to close the deal.

Since I am currently stranded without expedient transportation, I am planning to also replace some fuel line that appears to be dry-rotted. Iíve gotten more exercise on this job than I have in months (bike ride to auto parts store and yoga under the truck), and Iíll be glad when itís over.

The two nuts on the bed many of you will notice above the fuel sender assembly attach a U-bolt to the bed, providing a latching point for the rear bench seat. Didnít dawn on me until I looked from inside, so unfortunately, no easy access port, but you probably wonít need one if you go the route listed throughout this thread.

DISCLAIMER: Doing your own vehicle repair is HAZARDOUS. If you have any doubts about your ability to perform this work, DO NOT PROCEED. The thoughts of fire and being crushed between the rear axle and bed were enough to make me proceed expediently and diligently, with an emphasis on fast and gentle. My father always believed that if he could afford to pay somebody to do a job, then it wasnít worth getting dirty over. Problem is, I canít afford to pay even myself, so like most of us, I know itís fixed because I fixed it. (Well, in the end, with a little help from my kids and my brother)
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