Eco_Boost Fuel Dilution Problems - SHOForum

Just curious. Given it's Amsoil bringing it up, it's already fishy

 

Nope. I'm sorry but I take issue with most things AMSOIL related. I've just seen too many issues here and elsewhere.

That said, I've not experienced anything with mine and just had the first oil change and service done at 3K. I'm always on a 3K maintenance program with my gas vehicles and this one is no exception. I may just go ahead and get a Blackstone kit though out of curiosity.

 

As I understand it, all direct injected gas burners are subject some fuel bypass into the crankcase.

Ford is launching the EB program fleet wide except in the heavier trucks, I'm guessing that Ford isn't real concerned.

I'm certain about the Taurus models, but the F-150's can go up to 10K on a dump cycle or when the oil life monitor says to dump, which ever occurs first.

Currently I'm having the dealer dump mine on a 5000-6000 mile cycle.

 

Some fuel dilution does occur on the eco. It is one of the reasons it is specified for 5W-30 instead of 5W-20. When I did an OCA at 10k miles the viscosity had lowered to that of a 5W-20.

 

Yup. All direct injected engines with forced indution have some fuel dilution, just like a diesel. It's the nature of the beast. As long as this is accounted for in the design of the engine and how the service intervals are spec'ed out, it's not an issue.

The other problem that arises from direct injection is that fuel no longer washes over the valves, which can allow for heavy carbon and oil (from the PCV/EGR) buildup on the valves. I haven't heard much of this on the Ford front, but it was/is a major issue with Audi/VW/Mercedes/Porsche and a few others.

 

Yeppers - just came out of an audi q5 turbo with the direct injection and there were reports of them having an EXPENSIVE engine tear down to get rid of the carbon within 60k miles !!!

Ford's direct injection is too new to have that issue yet... hopefully the design is different and they have it whipped .

One of the reasons we leased the wife's Ex sport... that and hope to get down to one vehicle within 3 years !!! and that one towing our large 5er around

 

yep, Did oil analysis, it was flagged for 5% dilution, that was a 7500 mile interval using mobil 1, intend on lowering that to 5k and see where it goes from there. At this point I will switch back to much cheaper semisynthetic if I cant find mobil 1 cheaper.

 

My Eco FX4 this winter diluted the oil so bad I actually considered using it as fuel in my 2 stroke weed whacker! In the summer it doesn't seem to be so bad, but because of this I have gone to 4000 mile oil changes with Castrol Edge Extended Protection (which is supposed to be good for up to 15k miles). Hopefully it cover my EB's needs to 4k miles. This is a little pricey but as noted above it is the nature of the beast.

I found this little tid bit of information in the website GF-6 | Lubrizol, check it out, but here is a little excerpt that might pic your interest:

New phenomena linked to GDI

Though gasoline direct injection boosts power and efficiency, especially in conjunction with turbocharging, it is not perfect. Not all the fuel vaporizes in the combustion chamber, and this can be emitted as PM in the exhaust. In fact, European legislation now entering into force places limits on the PM emissions of GDI vehicles, making it probable that some may have to be fitted with particulate filters similar to diesel cars.

This, says UK-based Lubrizol technical manager Keith Howard, means that the filters risk becoming blocked with PM ash, which would in turn point toward GDI vehicles requiring low-SAPs oils – just as diesels now do.

A second issue, says Howard, writing in the January 2013 edition of Lubes’n’Greases, is that the particulates entering the oil via blowby gases begin to increase the internal wear rates, with a number of OEMs reporting issues of cam-chain wear after switching from port injection to GDI. Other studies cited by Howard have revealed that oxidation within the oil can be much more aggressive in turbo GDI engines, leading to a rapid viscosity increase – which is of course the worst enemy of fuel efficiency. “The situation can be significantly improved by using oil formulations that include more oxidatively stable base stocks and more additive packages,” he observes.

Much the most mysterious, however, is the phenomenon of low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI] that affects TGDI engines. In severe cases, LSPI can damage pistons, degrade performance, lower fuel efficiency and increase emissions, says Howard. The phenomenon is not yet understood. Nevertheless, he says, several automakers “have expressed interest in minimizing LSPI and have included it as a performance parameter in their proposed ILSAC GF-6 gasoline engine oil standard.”

"Increased internal wear rates"....kinda sets a fellow to thinking about how long his OCI's should really be....

 

today my second set of oil analysis came back on both of my engines, wife's escape w/2.0 and my truck, both were flagged for >5% fuel dilution, all other elements were ok, viscosity was a little impaired and base numbers were good, no real problems with wear metals, my concern is that this will have long term negative affects on the durability of these engines, aside from this problem(if it is) these engine run very nice, all kinds of power and very good fuel economy for what they are. My questions to anyone who has had this issue is how did the dealer treat this problem, at what point does ford get involved? the truck has 25,600 miles and the escape has roughly 19,000 miles, any one with any real knowledge of these issues thanks in advance, Joe

 

Joe,

It is my personal opinion that damage or excessive wear can be mitigated by frequent oil dump cycles. When I say frequent, I really mean about every 5-6K miles vs. what the OLM states.

In a six quart sump, that breaks down to 192 fluid ounces. 5% dilution would mean that appox. 9.6oz +or- of gasoline entered the oil pan over the course of the change interval assuming that yours is like mine and doesn't consume any oil.

There's likely more than one reason why we're using 5W-30 oil instead of 5W-20.

 

I pretty much agree Tim, no, neither engine uses any oil, its not like as soon as you change the oil you just add the cup of gas to it, it is a slow progression of a little bit of gas goes in just as part of its normal operation, I agree with shorter dump cycles too, when I talked to the service manager, he said that he highly recommended 5000 mile oil changes in these engines as well. I do think that some one at Ford is aware of this, but the service manager was playing dumb. I always assumed that the turbo's were what dictated the higher viscosity as turbo's are very tough on engine oil, I went with full synthetic because of this, I realize that these are also liquid cooled but I am old school in this regard, I may be making a hill out of a bump but this is they way I am, I need a little more information than most to make informed decisions. Thanks Tim.