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  #1  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:00 PM
03expeditionluv 03expeditionluv is offline
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P0172, P0174 plus misfire code. really need help!!!!!!

In the last couple of weeks the car would chug and not want to speed up at times but then at times it would drive perfectly fine. Then it started to get worse and it would hesitate as it sped up.

All this time I'm thinking it's either a coil pack or the spark plugs that need to be replaced because i had replaced 2 of the plugs and they looked almost original and I didn't have the money at the time to replace any of it so i let it slide for until it reached this point.

Well a few days ago it really started to act up and the check engine came on and started to flash when i try to accelerate but the car now won't go over 30-40 mph and if I push it it will basically lose all power and slow down to about 10 mph before it'll let me speed back up.

Those are the symptoms. The codes I've had vary a little. The 3 that pop up all the time are p1000 drive cycle not complete, p0172 bank 1 to rich, p0174 bank 2 to lean, and the ones that vary are misfires. I've gotten a mis for cyl 1, 3, and 4, at different times and sometimes together. also forgot one it was a body code something about the battery but i can't remember what it was

I decided to looked at the engine and try and diagnosis what was wrong. I focused on cyl 1 because that one has come up the most and its the easiest to get to. What i did was unplug it while the car sat at idle to see how much it changed compared to the other cylinders and in my opinion it didn't change as much as the others I tried. So I switched plug and coil pack from cylinder 2 because it was right there and cyl 1 continued to seem weak. As a matter of fact it actually made the car idle/run worse.

Something I thought I should mention is if i where to push it and the car did in fact speed up the motor would rev all the way to say 3000-3500 before it shifted gears and it would make kinda a metal clanking noise almost like the belt tensioner was worn out.

The only advice that has made sense I read somewhere saying is a clogged cat could be the problem other then that i am stumped. Does anyone else have any ideas or point me in a good direction?
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:08 PM
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lv2race lv2race is offline
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What motor do you have? How many miles? Are those the original plugs? Why change only 2? What condition were the coil boots when you removed them? Did the PCV and hose assy get moved when you changed the 2 plugs?

You're a little vague or maybe I'm just confused about past and present codes, so I suggest you disconnect the negative cable from the battery for a minute to reset the codes. Then drive it again for at least an hour if you can then check your codes again.

A miss fire from a weak coil may not throw a code.

Check the condition of the PCV elbow at the rear of the intake manifold.

Check the fuel pressure.

Make sure you connected the injector and coil connectors.

Clean the Mass Air Flow sensor but don't damage it as it's delicate.

If they are the original plugs, change all 8 then clean and apply dielectric grease to the coils. Inspect the boots for cracks and replace if necessary, but only replace the boots if it is determined that the coils are OK. You may just need a set of plugs and coils.
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2013, 05:51 AM
03expeditionluv 03expeditionluv is offline
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The plugs looked original and I have since replaced all and the problem continues.

5.4 130,000 miles

There were no past codes, like I said the only constant ones that pull up everytime are the 3 listed in the first post and the at random it'll pull misfire codes from either 1, 3, or 4 all cylinders on bank 1 side, the one that reads rich. Mostly just cyl 1

I've checked for vacuum leaks and connections everywhere making sure they are tight and they all appear tight. I've even sprayed starting fluid trying to find a leak. I do think I hear a leak tho but I might be wrong especially since I covered that motor in starting fluid trying to find one.

Ill have to find a tester to borrow to check fuel. And Ill clean the maf too. In the mean time has anyone experienced a similar problem?
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:37 PM
Hamfisted Hamfisted is offline
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Change the fuel filter ...

How many miles on the fuel filter? When mine threw those codes it was a partially clogged fuel filter resulting in low fuel pressure to the rails. Went to Advance Auto parts, picked up a new Motorcraft fuel filter (FG-1063) and the problem was fixed. The fuel line release clips are just squeeze to release types, no tool required.


-Mike




Click the image to open in full size.
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:25 PM
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r2millers r2millers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamfisted View Post
How many miles on the fuel filter? When mine threw those codes it was a partially clogged fuel filter resulting in low fuel pressure to the rails. Went to Advance Auto parts, picked up a new Motorcraft fuel filter (FG-1063) and the problem was fixed. The fuel line release clips are just squeeze to release types, no tool required.


Click the image to open in full size.
Mike
With that filter you must have used the circular release tool to remove. If you didn't, must of been a pretty big set of pliers or crow bar.
To your advise, great thing to changeout ever 50k or so.
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lv2race View Post
What motor do you have? How many miles? Are those the original plugs? Why change only 2? What condition were the coil boots when you removed them? Did the PCV and hose assy get moved when you changed the 2 plugs?

You're a little vague or maybe I'm just confused about past and present codes, so I suggest you disconnect the negative cable from the battery for a minute to reset the codes. Then drive it again for at least an hour if you can then check your codes again.

A miss fire from a weak coil may not throw a code.

Check the condition of the PCV elbow at the rear of the intake manifold.

Check the fuel pressure.

Make sure you connected the injector and coil connectors.

Clean the Mass Air Flow sensor but don't damage it as it's delicate.

If they are the original plugs, change all 8 then clean and apply dielectric grease to the coils. Inspect the boots for cracks and replace if necessary, but only replace the boots if it is determined that the coils are OK. You may just need a set of plugs and coils.
John,
You are right on here. The only thing I'd add would be to use anti-seize on the plug threads when replacing.
I know like me... You've been there, done that.
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As my brother reminds me regularly... "Life is not a spectator sport."
2007 F-250, PSD, SW, CC, LB, 2 WD, 85k, coolant filter, DashBoss, 1999 Expedition 5.4 319k plus, 32' CrossRoads CrossTerrain 5th wheel Toy Hauler, 24' Chaparral Villain lll 598 ci
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  #7  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:13 AM
VAclubexpedition VAclubexpedition is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03expeditionluv View Post
In the last couple of weeks the car would chug and not want to speed up at times but then at times it would drive perfectly fine. Then it started to get worse and it would hesitate as it sped up.

All this time I'm thinking it's either a coil pack or the spark plugs that need to be replaced because i had replaced 2 of the plugs and they looked almost original and I didn't have the money at the time to replace any of it so i let it slide for until it reached this point.

Well a few days ago it really started to act up and the check engine came on and started to flash when i try to accelerate but the car now won't go over 30-40 mph and if I push it it will basically lose all power and slow down to about 10 mph before it'll let me speed back up.

Those are the symptoms. The codes I've had vary a little. The 3 that pop up all the time are p1000 drive cycle not complete, p0172 bank 1 to rich, p0174 bank 2 to lean, and the ones that vary are misfires. I've gotten a mis for cyl 1, 3, and 4, at different times and sometimes together. also forgot one it was a body code something about the battery but i can't remember what it was

I decided to looked at the engine and try and diagnosis what was wrong. I focused on cyl 1 because that one has come up the most and its the easiest to get to. What i did was unplug it while the car sat at idle to see how much it changed compared to the other cylinders and in my opinion it didn't change as much as the others I tried. So I switched plug and coil pack from cylinder 2 because it was right there and cyl 1 continued to seem weak. As a matter of fact it actually made the car idle/run worse.

Something I thought I should mention is if i where to push it and the car did in fact speed up the motor would rev all the way to say 3000-3500 before it shifted gears and it would make kinda a metal clanking noise almost like the belt tensioner was worn out.

The only advice that has made sense I read somewhere saying is a clogged cat could be the problem other then that i am stumped. Does anyone else have any ideas or point me in a good direction?


I had the same issue cleaned the MAF sensor and now it runs fine
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:33 PM
Hamfisted Hamfisted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r2millers View Post
Mike
With that filter you must have used the circular release tool to remove. If you didn't, must of been a pretty big set of pliers or crow bar.
To your advise, great thing to changeout ever 50k or so.

Bob they changed the fuel line connectors in '03 to the squeeze release type. Yes, I know the older vehicles used the fuel line/ AC line tool to release the fittings. It was a pleasant surprise to find it not needed.
But yes, cleaning the MAF once a year is a great idea too. Routine maintenance.


-Mike


Here it is up under the truck ... just squeeze the blue buttons to release. Big improvement.
Click the image to open in full size.
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2013, 06:10 AM
Jymmm Jymmm is offline
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Heh, I had an 85 F-150 that would run for 40 minutes, then stall and would not restart for another 20 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat. Went of for four weeks like that... Stupid fuel filter!!! LOL



Found this info...

P0172
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172

P0174

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0174

Both seem to point to MAF, be delicate when cleaning it's just a thin wire.
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
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r2millers r2millers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamfisted View Post
Bob they changed the fuel line connectors in '03 to the squeeze release type. Yes, I know the older vehicles used the fuel line/ AC line tool to release the fittings. It was a pleasant surprise to find it not needed.
But yes, cleaning the MAF once a year is a great idea too. Routine maintenance.


-Mike


Here it is up under the truck ... just squeeze the blue buttons to release. Big improvement.
Click the image to open in full size.
Thanks Mike. That's good to know. Appreciate you not using that crowbar on my comments.
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As my brother reminds me regularly... "Life is not a spectator sport."
2007 F-250, PSD, SW, CC, LB, 2 WD, 85k, coolant filter, DashBoss, 1999 Expedition 5.4 319k plus, 32' CrossRoads CrossTerrain 5th wheel Toy Hauler, 24' Chaparral Villain lll 598 ci
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:59 PM
03expeditionluv 03expeditionluv is offline
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ok so I've changed the fuel filter and cleaned the maf and the problem still persist. i guess my next move is too unbolt the cat and see if it'll run any better unless anyone has any better suggestions.

i've looked at the cat and it looks very difficult to remove any suggestions on how unbolt?
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:22 PM
alloro alloro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03expeditionluv View Post
i guess my next move is too unbolt the cat and see if it'll run any better
Don't unbolt it. Instead remove the front O2 sensor and take a drive. There will be enough of an exhaust leak to free up backpressure and let you know if there is any difference. Leave the O2 sensor connected, just tie it off somewhere.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:59 PM
03expeditionluv 03expeditionluv is offline
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ok so i took it for a test drive and i heard a sort of pop i think and then this noise started to happen.

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Old 02-02-2013, 02:21 PM
03expeditionluv 03expeditionluv is offline
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Don't unbolt it. Instead remove the front O2 sensor and take a drive. There will be enough of an exhaust leak to free up backpressure and let you know if there is any difference. Leave the O2 sensor connected, just tie it off somewhere.
unbolted it and instead of stopping at 2500-3000 rpm it reved past 4000 so i thought I had it but when i went to take it for a test drive it didn't act any different if fact it might have been worse. it had no pick up so i didnt even go 40ft before i turned back around.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:14 PM
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Can't watch the video because you have it marked as private.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:14 PM
 
 
 
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