'fenders gets his first flatty, advice needed.
#61
#62
If it is I didn't do it. I'll check them all but I put absolutely no stress on any rod. I blew the crown off the #8 piston trying to knock it out the top with the extension. Had nothing left to safely strike in that direction and took it out the bottom after the crank was out. It laughed at pine 2x4s. I had to raid my woodworking shop of some 10/4 white oak. I got two piston drivers left for the other block.
#8 cylinder looks like it will clean up with a small bore. It is the only cylinder that looks like it wouldn't clean up with a hone. I am going to bore it pretty big, but I wouldn't have to.
In my unexperienced flatthead opinion, the engine was just tired. Many broken rings. Has no ridge and I pushed pistons out with my hand only. They have been broken a long time. Is ring breakage fairly common in flatties?
#8 cylinder looks like it will clean up with a small bore. It is the only cylinder that looks like it wouldn't clean up with a hone. I am going to bore it pretty big, but I wouldn't have to.
In my unexperienced flatthead opinion, the engine was just tired. Many broken rings. Has no ridge and I pushed pistons out with my hand only. They have been broken a long time. Is ring breakage fairly common in flatties?
#63
#64
well at least you got it apart . i had a 37 21 stud along with a 40 and 41 blocks and cranks that had been machined , and the 37 was frozen up in capitol letters . i tried everything to free it including drilling one piston too break it , no luck . i gave it too the fella who bought the blocks and told him to have fun .
#65
#66
#67
Haven't messed with the guides yet. Just popped the springs and valves out. Springs are junk so I don't mind that I am twisting them out of the way. Most of the valves are pretty free. Some of the keepers are married to the retainers though. Compress the spring and the keepers stay with retainer so I can't pop them off. Then gunk is semi-solid at this point. I need to buy some flatty valve tools, but just want to buy what I am actually gonna use. What is your recommendation for guide removal procedure? They push/drive down into the block, or pull them up through the deck? I have seen some vintage tool PICs that appear to pull the whole assy up through the deck.
#68
You're not taking advantage of the most wondrous part of flatheads, although if the engine is stuck it might not be fun. You should definitely get a good valve guide prybar tool made for flatheads Fords, a long bar with a fork on the ends. The fork grabs a groove in the guides near the top of the springs, you lever it against the valve chest opening, pull the guide down against spring pressure until you can slip the retaining clips out. Then the whole guide/spring/valve assembly comes out the top. Going together with fresh clean parts, on the assembly line, they put all 16 assemblies in in less than 30 seconds. (see the one minute and 2:45 marks here:
)
That's the only tool you really "need".
If you have pulled the valves out and springs, might as well drive the guides down into the valve chest.
The vintage tools you saw are for guides that are recalcitrant, but where the horseshoe clips are out.
That's the only tool you really "need".
If you have pulled the valves out and springs, might as well drive the guides down into the valve chest.
The vintage tools you saw are for guides that are recalcitrant, but where the horseshoe clips are out.
#69
#70
#71
That's exactly what I was thinking. Nasty cold has me down for the night but I will pull them this weekend and can finish my visual crack test. I have no problem buying the tools I truly need. But I'm not 20 anymore, and a few of these tools will get used only a couple times. No chance my guides are going to just fall out like they do when new. They'll need a little persuasion. I'm probably running all new valvetrain parts so it doesn't matter if I scuff them up.
#74
Couple questions on parts I have found. Yes Dick, now that I have priced out everything, you were right. Flatties are quite spendy. The exterior bolt ons might be reasonable, but it is more than made up by the high price of bearings, waterpumps, pistons, lifters, gaskets and such. I'll have to find the middle ground on this build. Anyway, I am going to pick up a few parts as I find a deal. What do you think of these prices.
Complete valvetrain, SS valves in 1.50 or O/S 1.560, hardened guides. guide retainer clips, lifters, keepers, retainers, springs. All Elgin brand. A seller on the bay is throwing up multiple auctions a week and I can probably get all that for under $200. Not sure the springs would be good enough, but thinking that is a good deal. I avoid machine shop charges for guide work. Right now all I have re-useable are intake valves, retainer clips. My exhaust valve margins are going to be too sharp if they are ground again.
I put up a classified for a Merc 4.0 crank on the HAMB. One offer so far. $385 for one fresh from machine shop. ground .020/.020. I think a Scat stroker crank is about $700. If I go Scat, I would bump the stroke up to 4 1/4" probably. That is going to raise the rod and piston price though. I'm leaning Merc because I can find a deal on pistons, and use my old 8BA rods right. I have no doubt a modern Scat crank is better, but don't think I will break a Merc at 175HP.
Complete valvetrain, SS valves in 1.50 or O/S 1.560, hardened guides. guide retainer clips, lifters, keepers, retainers, springs. All Elgin brand. A seller on the bay is throwing up multiple auctions a week and I can probably get all that for under $200. Not sure the springs would be good enough, but thinking that is a good deal. I avoid machine shop charges for guide work. Right now all I have re-useable are intake valves, retainer clips. My exhaust valve margins are going to be too sharp if they are ground again.
I put up a classified for a Merc 4.0 crank on the HAMB. One offer so far. $385 for one fresh from machine shop. ground .020/.020. I think a Scat stroker crank is about $700. If I go Scat, I would bump the stroke up to 4 1/4" probably. That is going to raise the rod and piston price though. I'm leaning Merc because I can find a deal on pistons, and use my old 8BA rods right. I have no doubt a modern Scat crank is better, but don't think I will break a Merc at 175HP.
#75
You have to keep the crank, rods, and pistons as matched sets
The ford stock crank is different than the merc in throw
WRONGThe ford stock rods are different than merc in lengthWRONG
The ford stock piston pin placement is different than the merc in height
EDIT - The increase needed for the 4" and longer strokes are made in pin height, for thr 4 " stroke, and then by the difference between the increased pin placement and the top of the piston (The piston material gets thinner)
Or simpler - The stroke and the piston have to match
The ford stock crank is different than the merc in throw
WRONGThe ford stock rods are different than merc in lengthWRONG
The ford stock piston pin placement is different than the merc in height
EDIT - The increase needed for the 4" and longer strokes are made in pin height, for thr 4 " stroke, and then by the difference between the increased pin placement and the top of the piston (The piston material gets thinner)
Or simpler - The stroke and the piston have to match