Ross

This thing is coming 100% apart, and I anticipate replacing most everything. Are you suggesting valves and guides might be OK for reuse? Was considering larger valve upgrade as well, but I suppose we should have that conversation, before I throw money away. In any event, the flatty valves are cute little things. So are the rods and pistons.

 

Keep everything labeled as to where it came out of. (Lifters, valves, etc) Are the rods stamped with numbers, or are you into it yet? Does it have hardened seats? The rods go a specific direction too.

 

It will be tomorrow before any disassembly happens. I will mark/stamp everything. No idea if it has hardened seats. Only visual difference between the engines so far is the locked up block has mushroom valve stems. I have a box of spare parts. Set of 8AB rods, valves, guides, keepers etc.

I know there is a special tool to pull the guide retainers. That tool going to be mandatory?

Anxious to get it apart. The locked engine looks a lot better in the daylight. Rust is powdery and not dug in deep on the cylinder decks and cylinders as I thought. Might clean up with a bore. We'll see.

Keep your eyes open for a merc crank, though I better find one on my side of the country or shipping will be stupid.

 

Start squirting Kroil around the valve stems and guides. Yes, the tool is invaluable, but buy an "original" (many US mfr's, K-D, OTC, etc), the Speedway one doesn't impress me.

I asked about stamped numbers on the rods because that indicates a previous rebuild.

Mushroom valves were an early flathead thing, should not be in an 8BA. They require 2-piece guides which are no fun. There are two types of "8BA" valve systems. When they deleted hardened seats in '51, they went to a rotator type (1BA) that has a shorter spring and a different retainer arrangement (bottom of pic). Many of those were replaced by the original, long-spring system over the years.

 

I have one of each valve/guide arrangement Ross. I guess I shouldn't be surprised I would see something odd. When I can post PICs directly to forum it will be easier to show you what is going on.

And not that it really means anything, but here is the story of my engines. They came out of a garage clean out of a man who passed away some time ago. Wife says he raced flatties locally. I am guessing these are spares that probably never saw the race car. The locked engine has busted exhaust bolts, and fragments of a stock cast iron manifold. Doesn't look like it had any good stuff on it. The good block, who knows. She said they were in the garage for decades. Stuck block (with mushroom valves) has been wet on the topside for sure. It's been outside for a period of time fairly recently.

And thanks so much for your attention to this thread Ross. I consider myself an experiences engine builder, but this flatty is completely new territory. I think you will save me from learning some things the hard way.

 

A bit of an update. Got the engines off the trailer and inside. Did some cleanng and have a bit more evidence to go on now.

Block #1- cleaned up the deck and valve area. No sign of corrosion or cracks at all. Cylinders have a very light ring wear ridge. Cleaned about four piston tops. No oversize markings. They look like they were home made compared to what I am used to. I suppose that is normal. Rocked the valves that were up and they feel a little sloppy to me. They also spin easily by hand. I think this is a stock engine that may have never been disassembled. No sign of cracks near the oilpan rail. It won't turn over easily, but I see no signs why it shouldn't. I'm cautiously optimistic. After a few more days of penetrant soaking I will disassemble it.

Block #2- Bit more work to clean due to corrosion. Had residue from what I would consider a semi-modern headgasket. Graphite/steel mesh gasket. (don't know what flatties had from Ford). I found no cracks, but this engine has definitely been hot and/or lean. It looked like a blower motor with a bad tune for reference. One piston burned real bad. Huge melted dip in the piston and a pin hole all the way through. Erosion from several valves to the cylinder on numerous cylinders, and heading towards a water jacket in at least one spot. A ..010 deck "might" clean it up, but I doubt it. This one might have spent some time at the track turning a few rpms. I think this block is likely a parts donor.

 

If they aren't cracked, they're both good to go. Heck, you could bore block #2 out an 1/8th inch!

(Not that I would go that far unless I had to)

 

While you're scheming and dreaming about how your Flatty is to be built leave the Headers out until you decide which vehicle it will go in.

 

don't put the flatty on the engine stand in the conventional way ! you can cause yourself issues , like cracking the block i am told . instead buy one of the adaptors from one of the many flathead sources , that bolts to your exhaust ports and mounts into your engine stand . i did and i'm glad of it . also bought the intake manifold plate to pull them with up , down in , out etc. . damn if i can remember the guy i bought them from , but most peeps who deal flathead parts should stock them . by the way congrats on getting into some of ours favorite pain in the backsides . once you drive a running flatty , no matter how much trouble they might give you , you can never go back .....................

 

The engine stand problems are for the Flatmotors with the cast in half bell housing

 

That's good because I just bought a 4 wheel stand for this project.

Going to work on her some tonight. You should see my two car garage right now. We got a 94 Mustang drag car on the left. We got a 94 Cobra being parted out next to it. The drag car spare engine is on a stand. There is a 5.0 block dangling on the chain hoist almost out of the Cobra. The two flatties are sitting on the floor trapping the parts car inside.

53 outside in a snow bank. $7K worth on John Deere with 2 hours of use outside.

I gotta get organized. I should quit my job and just play with cars all the time.

 

Congrats on your purchase of a money pi......oops...er...I mean flatty.

Should be a fun project
Bobby

 

I believe this is what Kevin was referring to for holding the block.

 

That should hold it for sure. I notice the engine to bellhousing flange depth on the late flatty is 150% of an OHV engine. Enjoying myself investigating the differences, new vs old, (perhaps I am sniffing too much penetrating oil whilst trying to free these engines.

Block that weighs as much as a 460 CI mill. Valves that appear to belong in a 4 cyl focus, pair of 15 pound waterpumps. Timing gears that are heftier than the gears in the 10T military trucks I work on every day. Dainty pistons that truly look home made. The soft valve springs go against everything in my experience. They should float at high idle.

Dick is right, I'm hooked already. Mailing some Cobra parts to Sweden tomorrow and wondering what flatty part that will fund.

 

Re: valve springs; look at the mass of the valve system -- with stock lifters, it is measured in grams. No pushrod, no rocker, no hydraulic lifter. It is like an upside-down OHC engine.

The block by itself isn't that heavy, it's the crank and manifolds that add up quickly. Setting the crank in gently is not fun.

That actually isn't the engine stand adapter Kevin was talking about (I think). He's talking about the Stumpy's style, Stumpy's Fabrication Works : Photos

With that, the engine sits with the crank parallel to the head of the stand. The weight is all real close to the main post.