Electric Engine Cooling For The 6.9l/7.3l Navistar Diesel.
#1
12-02-2012, 06:31 PM
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Electric Engine Cooling For The 6.9l/7.3l Navistar Diesel.
first,understanding the IDI's normal operating temperatures.
the ideal temp for max performance and fuel economy is much higher than some people think.the diesel engine is not like a gas engine that prefers lower heat.
many people think,the cooler the better.this is not so,with any fluid in any component of your truck.every part of the drivetrain,yes including auto transmissions have a preferred operating temp (which is 150f minimum,and 175f ideally by the way measured in the base/pan of the trans.)
Originally the IDI diesel came with a 4 row HD brass rad....... I don't understand why they are selling aluminums as replacement.....
Diesel engine coolant temperature at the top of the radiator where hose attaches after high rpm or under load condition for 20 minutes should be (195-237*F) 91-114*C nice time to have a temperature reading point and shoot tool.
CAUTION:
The specified/required thermostat does not contain an internal bypass, since the bypass is located in the cylinder block. Whenever the thermostat is replaced, it is mandatory that only Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C or Navistar 1807974C94 thermostat be installed.
Diesel engine coolant temperature at the top of the radiator where hose attaches after high rpm or under load condition for 20 minutes should be (195-237*F) 91-114*C nice time to have a temperature reading point and shoot tool.
CAUTION:
The specified/required thermostat does not contain an internal bypass, since the bypass is located in the cylinder block. Whenever the thermostat is replaced, it is mandatory that only Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C or Navistar 1807974C94 thermostat be installed.
Do you know which Tstat is installed, do not use aftermarket.......could be the clutch fan is locked up and not unlocking. Do the fan test at the address I sent you.....email.
CAUTION:
The specified/required thermostat does not contain an internal bypass, since the bypass is located in the cylinder block. Whenever the thermostat is replaced, it is mandatory that only Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C or Navistar 1807974C94 thermostat be installed.
CAUTION:
Do not attempt to repair any thermostat. It should be replaced if it is not operating properly.
Check the new thermostat before installing it for correct opening temperature. Before suspending in boiling water, with a flashlight check where the rubber and the flat metal flange meet for bad seal. Tstat should start to opening barely at 180-192f, fully open 200-212f, allow to cool and check for rubber seal again.
Removal: Disconnect batteries, drain 4+ gals A/F, remove: as required, fan belt, alternator set aside, alt bracket, remove filter support from fuel filter then e/block. Disconnect upper rad hose at rad, remove tstat bolts and housing. Clean both faces, depression and holes in block, ensure check ball in goosekneck is clean, free and rattles "do not remove".
Installation is reverse proceedure, I do not use sealant on gaskets and faces. REMEMBER the tstat pellet(copper end) goes into the block. I do use a "very small amount" of sealant on the edge of the tstat face when installing into the recess, now go for coffee, allow sealant to setup, this has saved me from tstat slippage when the gasket and goosekneck are installed. Replace all items in reverse order......
Manifold bolt torque......... 20ftlbs
CAUTION:
The specified/required thermostat does not contain an internal bypass, since the bypass is located in the cylinder block. Whenever the thermostat is replaced, it is mandatory that only Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C or Navistar 1807974C94 thermostat be installed.
CAUTION:
Do not attempt to repair any thermostat. It should be replaced if it is not operating properly.
Check the new thermostat before installing it for correct opening temperature. Before suspending in boiling water, with a flashlight check where the rubber and the flat metal flange meet for bad seal. Tstat should start to opening barely at 180-192f, fully open 200-212f, allow to cool and check for rubber seal again.
Removal: Disconnect batteries, drain 4+ gals A/F, remove: as required, fan belt, alternator set aside, alt bracket, remove filter support from fuel filter then e/block. Disconnect upper rad hose at rad, remove tstat bolts and housing. Clean both faces, depression and holes in block, ensure check ball in goosekneck is clean, free and rattles "do not remove".
Installation is reverse proceedure, I do not use sealant on gaskets and faces. REMEMBER the tstat pellet(copper end) goes into the block. I do use a "very small amount" of sealant on the edge of the tstat face when installing into the recess, now go for coffee, allow sealant to setup, this has saved me from tstat slippage when the gasket and goosekneck are installed. Replace all items in reverse order......
Manifold bolt torque......... 20ftlbs
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ure-gauge.html
#2
12-02-2012, 06:35 PM
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secondly,why consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
1.safety/ease of working around running engine (examples; timing engine,diagnosing sounds,priming fuel.)
2.free up hp.who wants to feel a power loss and slow down even more while towing uphill because your engine fan kicks on? let's face it,everyone wants the majority of their power to remain at the back wheels at all times.especially when you need it the most.
the idi isn't a powerful diesel engine as far as hp goes by modern standards.they can be built to impressive levels.however this requires thousands of dollars,engine removal,tear down and or possibly complete overhaul (depending on what your after.)
as worthwhile as this may be,not everyone has the funds,time nor desire to completely remove and start tearing into their engines.there are small gains to be had in other places.this is one of them.
some idi owners with years of driving these rigs under their belt,have estimated 20+ hp loss when the mechanical fans engages.this may not sound like much,but it's a pretty good chunk when only talking about a 180-190 hp engine (at the wheels) with a typical aftermarket turbo kit.just 120-130 hp with an n/a engine.
we also have a dyno report:
3.efficiency/economy.electric fans are much more efficient.generate some their own power while running and require no power at all when off (which is most of the time) unlike a fan just spinning in free mode.it all adds up.
4.stock fan clutches are expensive and failure prone.replacements these days seem to be even worse.high end clutches built to last and work much more efficiently can set you back for more than a typically good used idi engine,making them an impractical option for most idi owners.
5.a fairly common event over the years,has been reports of idi engines tossing their fans through radiators.these are not cheap.while some may claim its due to improper installs etc.it's also happened at various random times upon engine shut down,not just after fan clutch replacements.
6.far better cooling at idle.this means colder a/c in the summer.cooler engine while plowing snow and other slow driving, or idle off road work and play duties.
7.quieter engine.it's well known the stock fan really roars when engaged.i hear nothing,and in fact had to install indicator lights to know when they're working.
8.reduced stress on water pump bearing.
9.off roading driving in deep water.you can turn the fans off (best research how the motors seem to hold up after being submerged in water though lol.)
10.faster warmup.though we have a t-stat,so it's not a major issue.when starting your engine with a mechanical,it blows cold air over the engine and trans.this means not as good for emissions either (though this is not a commonly known concern in this section of the forum lol) and economy gains there too,though unmeasurable in this regard im sure,but hey,it's there.adds up over ownership.
11.fully adjustable air flow at a temp you prefer with a variable rate/adjustable controller.you can tune it for your driving style.or full on pre-hill to keep her from even getting hot for that monster grade coming up.
12.reduce head gasket failure.e-fans used in conjunction with a variable rate fan controller that slowly ramps up the airflow,will slowly bring the temps down and keep them manageable in the first place.when the mechanical engages,it can often be latter than you would like,and then it's just full boar all at once.this drastic quick change in engine temps can warp heads and isn't any good on head gaskets.
13.ease of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement is extremely easy,and might take 5 minutes total.
14.cost of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement electric motors,even new cost around $40 (ford 95-98 windstar example.at time of this post and price check on ebay.)
15.quick extra cooling for auto trans aux cooler.with an override switch,you can turn the fans on to help pass air through your aux trans cooler.when driving below torque convert lockup speeds,this can be very helpful.iv done this when plowing snow even if the engine temps are fine,the trans temps can creep up quick.
why not consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
it requires time,money and a little effort to do it correctly.if you lack any of these,it's best to skip this mod,otherwise you will fail.
1.safety/ease of working around running engine (examples; timing engine,diagnosing sounds,priming fuel.)
2.free up hp.who wants to feel a power loss and slow down even more while towing uphill because your engine fan kicks on? let's face it,everyone wants the majority of their power to remain at the back wheels at all times.especially when you need it the most.
the idi isn't a powerful diesel engine as far as hp goes by modern standards.they can be built to impressive levels.however this requires thousands of dollars,engine removal,tear down and or possibly complete overhaul (depending on what your after.)
as worthwhile as this may be,not everyone has the funds,time nor desire to completely remove and start tearing into their engines.there are small gains to be had in other places.this is one of them.
some idi owners with years of driving these rigs under their belt,have estimated 20+ hp loss when the mechanical fans engages.this may not sound like much,but it's a pretty good chunk when only talking about a 180-190 hp engine (at the wheels) with a typical aftermarket turbo kit.just 120-130 hp with an n/a engine.
we also have a dyno report:
Hey this is Marnin, known as dieselgiant at Oilburners. I've dione the Windstar E fan conversion this past spring and it has done exceptionally well over the summer. And in regaurds to Hp gains I've dynoed since the 137hp to 149.77hp. After the E fan convertion and a few other small modes it made 175.3 Hp on Beans diesel dyno. The engine also revs up faster. My 7.3 is still NA.
4.stock fan clutches are expensive and failure prone.replacements these days seem to be even worse.high end clutches built to last and work much more efficiently can set you back for more than a typically good used idi engine,making them an impractical option for most idi owners.
5.a fairly common event over the years,has been reports of idi engines tossing their fans through radiators.these are not cheap.while some may claim its due to improper installs etc.it's also happened at various random times upon engine shut down,not just after fan clutch replacements.
6.far better cooling at idle.this means colder a/c in the summer.cooler engine while plowing snow and other slow driving, or idle off road work and play duties.
7.quieter engine.it's well known the stock fan really roars when engaged.i hear nothing,and in fact had to install indicator lights to know when they're working.
8.reduced stress on water pump bearing.
9.off roading driving in deep water.you can turn the fans off (best research how the motors seem to hold up after being submerged in water though lol.)
10.faster warmup.though we have a t-stat,so it's not a major issue.when starting your engine with a mechanical,it blows cold air over the engine and trans.this means not as good for emissions either (though this is not a commonly known concern in this section of the forum lol) and economy gains there too,though unmeasurable in this regard im sure,but hey,it's there.adds up over ownership.
11.fully adjustable air flow at a temp you prefer with a variable rate/adjustable controller.you can tune it for your driving style.or full on pre-hill to keep her from even getting hot for that monster grade coming up.
12.reduce head gasket failure.e-fans used in conjunction with a variable rate fan controller that slowly ramps up the airflow,will slowly bring the temps down and keep them manageable in the first place.when the mechanical engages,it can often be latter than you would like,and then it's just full boar all at once.this drastic quick change in engine temps can warp heads and isn't any good on head gaskets.
13.ease of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement is extremely easy,and might take 5 minutes total.
14.cost of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement electric motors,even new cost around $40 (ford 95-98 windstar example.at time of this post and price check on ebay.)
15.quick extra cooling for auto trans aux cooler.with an override switch,you can turn the fans on to help pass air through your aux trans cooler.when driving below torque convert lockup speeds,this can be very helpful.iv done this when plowing snow even if the engine temps are fine,the trans temps can creep up quick.
why not consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
it requires time,money and a little effort to do it correctly.if you lack any of these,it's best to skip this mod,otherwise you will fail.
#3
12-02-2012, 06:38 PM
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third,what is required to convert from a stock,energy robbing,failure prone,mechanical cooling fan for electric?
here is the list.
CAUTION!
if not followed,you will fail and complete engine failure could be the result.even if you do follow this list,no promises can be made that your engine will cool well enough.there are far too many variables.experimental only! you have been warned!
required.not optional:
1.a 3g alternator.
mid '92-94 idi:
if your '92 was mid year,and came with the updated serpentine belt,you already have the upgraded 130a 3g alternator.all '93 and '94 idi's also have the serp belt/130a 3g.skip to #2.
1983-92
the 3g replaced the older 1g alts from the factory on this engine,mid year of 1992.if your '92 idi has v-belts still,it's got the older alt.you'll need the upgrade,along with all idi's before it.if you haven't upgraded to the 3g yet,do it anyway.even if you don't install e-fans.the mod is so affordable and easy to do, there is no reason an idi isn't sporting a 3g today.major upgrade for so little money and effort.you don't need new.salvage yards are your friend.these alts last a long time.
start by learning here:
3G alternator FACTS (its wins again!)
& youtube vid for more tips/details:
2.engine coolant temp gauge.that stock idiot light in the shape of a gauge will not do.stick with a good,well known quality gauge.if you try and alter with an unknown,or skimp on price,you'll just be sorry.expect to pay right around 50 bucks at least for a well known trusted gauge for accuracy.
3.two electric fans,known to last and supply enough air to cool this engine.one will not cut the mustard.
i use the 95-98 dual ford windstar assembly.many report the fans found on 3.8l v6 cars of the 90's work very well also when paired into a custom built dual assembly.
4.proper controller and wiring to handle the load of the dual fan setup.for those with a/c,this means a controller which turns the fans on at least low to mid speed when the a/c is turned on.otherwise you could burn out your compressor.
alternatively but not suggested,would be relays and switches to control them manually.
i use delta controls #FK-85
Constant Temperature Controllers and Accessories
caution! small one man show,as far as i can tell.likely not his primary job.you know how this can be.
Brain is the name,and top quality seems to be his game.so if you can order ahead of time,with expecting to wait upwards of over a month,it's worth the wait.other controllers made by large manufacturers have variable rate controllers or more basic on/off style if you'd rather and need the parts much quicker.
5.properly kept fresh low silicate coolant mixed exactly 50/50 with distilled water and with proper levels of sca's.
a.proper coolant for the idi.example:
Fleet Charge Specifications Sheet
needs to be checked and maintained with liquid sca's or via loaded coolant filter periodically.as with any coolant that can technically be used with the idi.
ELC coolant = ford and international both say NO! - Update; It's been noted for a while now that some ELC are not harmful to seals in our engines.Do your research.
evens waterless = yes,but pricey.
b.antifreeze tester.sold at any local auto store.insures your coolant is clean,mixed correctly for 50/50.example:
c.sca test strips.example:
New Pack of 25 Penray 3 Way Heavy Duty Antifreeze Coolant Test Strips | eBay
6.13 lb radiator cap.example:
only one exemption:
zero pressure cap with evens.
otherwise 13 lb only.
7.motorcraft t-stat.the updated part number is RT1049 exactly/only:
(specs are incorrectly listed.trivial.it's really 192 degree.not 190 as listed on amazon.the part is 100% correct.)
8.diesel specific sized radiator of course,with at least 2 cores.fins per square inch count is probably more important to focus on,rather than copper/brass vs aluminum.
start with an old,half plugged radiator,then your doomed from the start.clean or replace it first.
9.optional,but highly recommended; coolant filter.examples:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...coolant+filter
here is the list.
CAUTION!
if not followed,you will fail and complete engine failure could be the result.even if you do follow this list,no promises can be made that your engine will cool well enough.there are far too many variables.experimental only! you have been warned!
required.not optional:
1.a 3g alternator.
mid '92-94 idi:
if your '92 was mid year,and came with the updated serpentine belt,you already have the upgraded 130a 3g alternator.all '93 and '94 idi's also have the serp belt/130a 3g.skip to #2.
1983-92
the 3g replaced the older 1g alts from the factory on this engine,mid year of 1992.if your '92 idi has v-belts still,it's got the older alt.you'll need the upgrade,along with all idi's before it.if you haven't upgraded to the 3g yet,do it anyway.even if you don't install e-fans.the mod is so affordable and easy to do, there is no reason an idi isn't sporting a 3g today.major upgrade for so little money and effort.you don't need new.salvage yards are your friend.these alts last a long time.
start by learning here:
3G alternator FACTS (its wins again!)
& youtube vid for more tips/details:
2.engine coolant temp gauge.that stock idiot light in the shape of a gauge will not do.stick with a good,well known quality gauge.if you try and alter with an unknown,or skimp on price,you'll just be sorry.expect to pay right around 50 bucks at least for a well known trusted gauge for accuracy.
3.two electric fans,known to last and supply enough air to cool this engine.one will not cut the mustard.
i use the 95-98 dual ford windstar assembly.many report the fans found on 3.8l v6 cars of the 90's work very well also when paired into a custom built dual assembly.
4.proper controller and wiring to handle the load of the dual fan setup.for those with a/c,this means a controller which turns the fans on at least low to mid speed when the a/c is turned on.otherwise you could burn out your compressor.
alternatively but not suggested,would be relays and switches to control them manually.
i use delta controls #FK-85
Constant Temperature Controllers and Accessories
caution! small one man show,as far as i can tell.likely not his primary job.you know how this can be.
Brain is the name,and top quality seems to be his game.so if you can order ahead of time,with expecting to wait upwards of over a month,it's worth the wait.other controllers made by large manufacturers have variable rate controllers or more basic on/off style if you'd rather and need the parts much quicker.
5.properly kept fresh low silicate coolant mixed exactly 50/50 with distilled water and with proper levels of sca's.
a.proper coolant for the idi.example:
Fleet Charge Specifications Sheet
needs to be checked and maintained with liquid sca's or via loaded coolant filter periodically.as with any coolant that can technically be used with the idi.
ELC coolant = ford and international both say NO! - Update; It's been noted for a while now that some ELC are not harmful to seals in our engines.Do your research.
evens waterless = yes,but pricey.
b.antifreeze tester.sold at any local auto store.insures your coolant is clean,mixed correctly for 50/50.example:
c.sca test strips.example:
New Pack of 25 Penray 3 Way Heavy Duty Antifreeze Coolant Test Strips | eBay
6.13 lb radiator cap.example:
only one exemption:
zero pressure cap with evens.
otherwise 13 lb only.
7.motorcraft t-stat.the updated part number is RT1049 exactly/only:
(specs are incorrectly listed.trivial.it's really 192 degree.not 190 as listed on amazon.the part is 100% correct.)
8.diesel specific sized radiator of course,with at least 2 cores.fins per square inch count is probably more important to focus on,rather than copper/brass vs aluminum.
start with an old,half plugged radiator,then your doomed from the start.clean or replace it first.
9.optional,but highly recommended; coolant filter.examples:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...coolant+filter
#4
12-02-2012, 06:40 PM
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finally,how difficult is the conversion?
if you have basic average shade tree mechanic abilities,a touch of fabricating skills,can follow a basic wiring diagram,it's actually a very easy mod.easier in fact than swapping to hydroboost brakes from vac assist,and that's a fairly simple swap.about as time consuming as well.give yourself 4 solid hours for everything,start to finish.
on a difficulty scale from 1-10 with 1 being easiest,and 10 hardest.i personally ranked it a 2 for my radiator size,e-fan assembly and controller used.
here is my setup.mostly with dated pics,but the fan assembly remains unchanged.
1995 - 1998 Dual Electric Ford Windstar Engine Fan Assembly.Approx 2200 CFM Each/4400 CFM Total
Delta Current Control Variable Speed Fan Controller #FK-85P w/ DCC Remote Temperature Controller #TADJ22 & Indicator Light #L-101
(Normal Operating Temp of the IDI Diesel: 195° - 237°F)
the windstar cooling fan assembly was just about a direct bolt in fit.a little shaving of some plastic here and there,and self tapping screws is all that's required on 3 corners.
the upper pass side,simply took a threaded rod,or long bolt i guess it was,and just some extra nuts to hold it where you need it.very basic and easy.just make sure the fans don't rub the rad fins.my truck uses the taller radiator with a/c.
it is a replacement radiator.i went with another copper/brass unit.many prefer aluminum.
most current pics:
you may be thinking at this point,it would be a great mod to do, due to all the pro's,but find yourself thinking,well he must have just a hwy cruiser or something.it's not anything you could do to a truck that gets used for work.
my truck is used 100% for work.
here are some of it's normal activities.keep in mind,this truck tips the certified scales at over 8k lbs empty.
......................................
the older thread can be found here,with more older discussions,in depth arguments,common myths and legends lol:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...c+cooling+fans
this is a new thread cleanup,for those interested in swapping out the mechanical fans for electrics.info found easy.if your not interested,that's ok.no need to post here.move along,move along.
haha im kidding of course.if your not for e-fans for cooling and have concerns or warnings for others,feel free to share.i just had to organize better from the start,so others don't have to weed through to find the info.
..........................
electric cooling fans , ford windstar cooling fan assembly , ford taurus electric fans , 3.8l , dual e-fan assembly , fan controller , performance mods , economy increase , efficiency , free hp , hp gain , fan delete , operating temp , save fuel
mpg mods , hypermilling / hypermilers tweaks , overheating , failed fan clutch , 3g alternator , destroyed radiator
if you have basic average shade tree mechanic abilities,a touch of fabricating skills,can follow a basic wiring diagram,it's actually a very easy mod.easier in fact than swapping to hydroboost brakes from vac assist,and that's a fairly simple swap.about as time consuming as well.give yourself 4 solid hours for everything,start to finish.
on a difficulty scale from 1-10 with 1 being easiest,and 10 hardest.i personally ranked it a 2 for my radiator size,e-fan assembly and controller used.
here is my setup.mostly with dated pics,but the fan assembly remains unchanged.
1995 - 1998 Dual Electric Ford Windstar Engine Fan Assembly.Approx 2200 CFM Each/4400 CFM Total
Delta Current Control Variable Speed Fan Controller #FK-85P w/ DCC Remote Temperature Controller #TADJ22 & Indicator Light #L-101
(Normal Operating Temp of the IDI Diesel: 195° - 237°F)
the windstar cooling fan assembly was just about a direct bolt in fit.a little shaving of some plastic here and there,and self tapping screws is all that's required on 3 corners.
the upper pass side,simply took a threaded rod,or long bolt i guess it was,and just some extra nuts to hold it where you need it.very basic and easy.just make sure the fans don't rub the rad fins.my truck uses the taller radiator with a/c.
it is a replacement radiator.i went with another copper/brass unit.many prefer aluminum.
most current pics:
you may be thinking at this point,it would be a great mod to do, due to all the pro's,but find yourself thinking,well he must have just a hwy cruiser or something.it's not anything you could do to a truck that gets used for work.
my truck is used 100% for work.
here are some of it's normal activities.keep in mind,this truck tips the certified scales at over 8k lbs empty.
......................................
the older thread can be found here,with more older discussions,in depth arguments,common myths and legends lol:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...c+cooling+fans
this is a new thread cleanup,for those interested in swapping out the mechanical fans for electrics.info found easy.if your not interested,that's ok.no need to post here.move along,move along.
haha im kidding of course.if your not for e-fans for cooling and have concerns or warnings for others,feel free to share.i just had to organize better from the start,so others don't have to weed through to find the info...........................
electric cooling fans , ford windstar cooling fan assembly , ford taurus electric fans , 3.8l , dual e-fan assembly , fan controller , performance mods , economy increase , efficiency , free hp , hp gain , fan delete , operating temp , save fuel
mpg mods , hypermilling / hypermilers tweaks , overheating , failed fan clutch , 3g alternator , destroyed radiator
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12-02-2012, 08:02 PM
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#7
03-20-2013, 05:21 PM
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they have been 100% flawless since install of January 2011 Joe.
no regrets.either hauling and towing with my dump trailer full to plowing snow.keeping her cool,engine and trans easy as can be,low speeds to high speeds.
ice cold a/c while idling on the job site if i want to take a break/lunch and just cool off for a bit.
one of my favorite mods right here.
no regrets.either hauling and towing with my dump trailer full to plowing snow.keeping her cool,engine and trans easy as can be,low speeds to high speeds.
ice cold a/c while idling on the job site if i want to take a break/lunch and just cool off for a bit.
one of my favorite mods right here.
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03-21-2013, 03:33 PM
#10
03-14-2014, 04:46 PM
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manually controlling the fans without a controller.a lower cost solution.
caution.requires constant monitoring of engine temps! i don't recommend it.
caution a/c users!! it is highly recommended you use a fan controller or feed pin #86 to at least one of the fans relays to the compressors power source,so that whenever power goes to the compressor,this overrides your toggle switch and turns at least one fan on.you could burn up your compressor if at least one fan isn't turned on while sitting in traffic/driving slow/off road work duties etc.it would be easy to forget.
ok had to think this through for a min.i think iv got it.-someone please help - correct or confirm if you can.im not researching here,just thinking it out myself so i'm sure (iv never used a diode to wire anything up before.this is pure speculation here lol.)
so to do this,you want your toggle to pin #86 to only be able to flow from toggle to pin #86 and not back feed up.so a diode here to pass from toggle,but not up to toggle.so this would cure the issue with compressors power back feed up to toggle.so if using two toggles for two fans,do the same for each line.
now,when you turn the toggle on,you don't want to send power up to the compressor either,so a diode here from compressor to pin #86 of the relay would need a diode as well,so toggles power will only power pin #86 and not back feed up and turn your a/c on whenever you want to turn your fans on lol,that wouldn't be any good either (it would just pop your for example; tapped into radio fuse,whenever you turned your toggle on.as the a/c's compressor would spike far too much juice for that.) here however i guess it would only require one diode still even if you wanted the compressor to trigger both relays.you would just install the diode after you joint the two 86# wires going into the one line up to compressor.if unsure about that,install a diode in each tail before joining them to the single line going to compressor,but i don't think that would be required for anything?
basically,a diode is a one way electrical valve.you want your powers toggle switch to only go to the relay but not up to the a/c compressor.same applies from compressor.you only want that power to go to the relay but not up the toggle switch line that's all it is in short.
anyway,best let someone confirm iv got this correct.i think it's sound reasoning though......
caution.requires constant monitoring of engine temps! i don't recommend it.
caution a/c users!! it is highly recommended you use a fan controller or feed pin #86 to at least one of the fans relays to the compressors power source,so that whenever power goes to the compressor,this overrides your toggle switch and turns at least one fan on.you could burn up your compressor if at least one fan isn't turned on while sitting in traffic/driving slow/off road work duties etc.it would be easy to forget.
ok had to think this through for a min.i think iv got it.-someone please help - correct or confirm if you can.im not researching here,just thinking it out myself so i'm sure (iv never used a diode to wire anything up before.this is pure speculation here lol.)
so to do this,you want your toggle to pin #86 to only be able to flow from toggle to pin #86 and not back feed up.so a diode here to pass from toggle,but not up to toggle.so this would cure the issue with compressors power back feed up to toggle.so if using two toggles for two fans,do the same for each line.
now,when you turn the toggle on,you don't want to send power up to the compressor either,so a diode here from compressor to pin #86 of the relay would need a diode as well,so toggles power will only power pin #86 and not back feed up and turn your a/c on whenever you want to turn your fans on lol,that wouldn't be any good either (it would just pop your for example; tapped into radio fuse,whenever you turned your toggle on.as the a/c's compressor would spike far too much juice for that.) here however i guess it would only require one diode still even if you wanted the compressor to trigger both relays.you would just install the diode after you joint the two 86# wires going into the one line up to compressor.if unsure about that,install a diode in each tail before joining them to the single line going to compressor,but i don't think that would be required for anything?
basically,a diode is a one way electrical valve.you want your powers toggle switch to only go to the relay but not up to the a/c compressor.same applies from compressor.you only want that power to go to the relay but not up the toggle switch line that's all it is in short.
anyway,best let someone confirm iv got this correct.i think it's sound reasoning though......
the problem with the relays is,that the fans spike really high when you first turn them on.so normal 30/40 a relays just don't last.
so here's what i suggest for your manual control method;
get two of these:
Amazon.com: NTE R51-1D70-12F 70A 12VDC SPST Automotive Relay: Car Electronics
those should hold up well and take the spikes.once the fans are on,the amp draw way below the spike.use 10 awg wire for the relay's.
rather than fuses between relay pins #30,use a section of fuseable link for each one instead.
now for the line(s) to the toggle(s) that could probably just be speaker wire lol.use a light gauge 18.it will just tell the relays to open/close between the battery and fan with no load on it.and you won't burn the truck down.
so if you want just one toggle,hook your two 86#'s together at the relays and run just one wire to the toggle switch.i would run two lines and have two toggles myself because i know the duals on high can be a bit overkill for most of the time.being able to just spin one at a time sure would be handy.
so from pin 86's to the toggle,and at the other side of the toggle,a switched on 12v power source.like tapping into the radio's key on/run feed would be a good choice.if you use an always hot line,then you could mistakenly leave the fan(s) on when exiting the truck (though you'd hear them anyway and flip it off i suppose.i just wouldn't risk it.)
so here's what i suggest for your manual control method;
get two of these:
Amazon.com: NTE R51-1D70-12F 70A 12VDC SPST Automotive Relay: Car Electronics
those should hold up well and take the spikes.once the fans are on,the amp draw way below the spike.use 10 awg wire for the relay's.
rather than fuses between relay pins #30,use a section of fuseable link for each one instead.
now for the line(s) to the toggle(s) that could probably just be speaker wire lol.use a light gauge 18.it will just tell the relays to open/close between the battery and fan with no load on it.and you won't burn the truck down.
so if you want just one toggle,hook your two 86#'s together at the relays and run just one wire to the toggle switch.i would run two lines and have two toggles myself because i know the duals on high can be a bit overkill for most of the time.being able to just spin one at a time sure would be handy.
so from pin 86's to the toggle,and at the other side of the toggle,a switched on 12v power source.like tapping into the radio's key on/run feed would be a good choice.if you use an always hot line,then you could mistakenly leave the fan(s) on when exiting the truck (though you'd hear them anyway and flip it off i suppose.i just wouldn't risk it.)
#11
05-03-2014, 04:45 PM
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never done before.whole tank + out on the interstate.
i just ran down I95 to NH and back to ME to pick up a lift gate.cooling fans didn't need to turn on once.results from a 8k lb 4wd drw box truck:
did not having a mechanical cooling fan really help this much? i'll never know,but i doubt it hurt.
i just ran down I95 to NH and back to ME to pick up a lift gate.cooling fans didn't need to turn on once.results from a 8k lb 4wd drw box truck:
did not having a mechanical cooling fan really help this much? i'll never know,but i doubt it hurt.
#12
05-03-2014, 09:52 PM
For the last couple of weeks, I've been driving with /no/ fan. Just took the thing off.
At some point I'll probably add an electric, but running unloaded/semi-loaded(full truck, no trailer), I've not gotten above about 190-195F(where my thermostat actually opens).
Even idling doesn't bring it up, but I haven't idled it for many minutes either.
At some point I'll probably add an electric, but running unloaded/semi-loaded(full truck, no trailer), I've not gotten above about 190-195F(where my thermostat actually opens).
Even idling doesn't bring it up, but I haven't idled it for many minutes either.
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