Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150 SVT Ford F150 Lightning, Roush, Saleen and other performance F150's

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 05-22-2003, 04:34 PM
the_jugwa the_jugwa is offline
New User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 17
the_jugwa is starting off with a positive reputation.
Lightbulb Something to think about

Heres something to think about, the 2004 Ford Lightning has one of the most unique engine mods i can think of, its called a Super Cooler, they took the air cond. and routed it to the intake ( think about it, cold air makes ponies) Ford says its like a temporary shot of nitrous, and charges itself back up by just driving the truck. Now what I'm wondering is, have any of you guys out there done this out in the mud, now i know the air cond. pump can rob about 15 horses so most of you just torch the damn thing off, but ford says this design adds 40 horses to the lightning, so if this has been done before i'd like to know how you set it up in an older pickup, i think if this works in an older pickup i could use the 20 extra horses ( -15 horses from pump+40 horses from cold air induction=20 extra horses) Good idea I think. It's good in theory anyways huh?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-23-2003, 12:04 AM
proeliator proeliator is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,238
proeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to behold
Something to think about

A cold intake charge is good for ponies, but I really doubt it adds anywhere near that much. And as far as it being like a shot of laughing gas......well, that has me laughing at those stupid marketing drones who think we're that gullible.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-23-2003, 03:20 PM
85351ho 85351ho is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Auburn,Al
Posts: 2,759
85351ho is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

they said it's something similar to nitrous...because it only comes in at WOT and lasts for less than a minute..they never said anything abou tthe power kick being the same
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-23-2003, 04:11 PM
proeliator proeliator is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,238
proeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to beholdproeliator is a splendid one to behold
Something to think about

However, using any comparison to nitrous has at least the underlaying connection of instant power. At least I'm sure thats what those marketing guys are hoping for. I still say its shady.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-24-2003, 11:28 PM
02superstroker's Avatar
02superstroker 02superstroker is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,221
02superstroker is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

whether its a marketing scam or not, whether you think its a good idea or not, we can all agree that the next lightining is gunna be one fast SOB
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-25-2003, 12:04 PM
82F100SWB's Avatar
82F100SWB 82F100SWB is online now
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON, Canada
Posts: 4,628
82F100SWB has a good reputation on FTE.82F100SWB has a good reputation on FTE.
Something to think about

On the lightning, the shot of cold air is shot on the intercooler, and, that it would add 40 horses is reasonable, as the supersharger adds heat when the air is compressed, and a blast of cold air on the intercooler would add the effect of a more efficent intercooler.

On a naturally aspirated vehicle, a blast of cold air might ice up your intake, but, that's about it....
Evan
__________________
96 F350 Crew Psd/5 speed,/4x4... $600 special
96 F250 XLT PSD/5 speed/4x4... Freebie!
92 W250 LE, 4x4/CTD/G360/D60/D70U
86 F250 HD 4x4, 6.9/T19/broken D44 TTB junk/10.25.
8? F100 4x4 Mild 460/T19 D60/welded 10.25/44 Boggers,
It's not what you BUY, It's what you BUILD
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-25-2003, 01:51 PM
RRMike's Avatar
RRMike RRMike is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roseburg OR.
Posts: 2,153
RRMike is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

Ok lets examine this a bit here. Cool air is more dense than hot air thus there are more O2 molecules for cumbustion. Getting cool air from the outside is important for this reason.

Cool air is also important for another reason. To prevent detonation. Thus the intercooler. It cools the air to enable more boost (either supercharged or turbocharged) without detonation with the same octane fuel.

Once the air has passed through the turbo or blower then cooling it for the purpose of making it more dense is seemingly pointless. The charge of air in the intercooler is already set before the air is cooled. Making it more dense will not create more O2 molecules.

This leaves the other reason. Enabling more boost. Unless the lightening has a blower or turbo with a means of increasing boost rates when this cold air is put through the intercooler to take advantage of it's increased ability then I don't see much benefit to it in this capacity either.

Maybe the timing can be advanced some during this time to create more top end power. This would be possible with computer controlled timing. The knock sensor would register less detonation due to the colder intake charge thus enabling advanced timing.

I doubt if this alone would increase HP by 40. I would be interested to read more about this. Does anyone know of a link detailing how this works?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-25-2003, 02:33 PM
Ford4X4 Ford4X4 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 19
Ford4X4 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

here ya go. http://www.classictruckstop.com/news...ews2003-1.html
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-26-2003, 12:47 AM
steve83's Avatar
steve83 steve83 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 9,985
steve83 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

Quote:
Originally posted by rrmike
Cool air is also important for another reason. To prevent detonation.
The few degrees of difference in intake temperature has no effect on detonation/preignition/dieseling. If it did, you'd have to reset your timing every summer. Spark plug type, ignition timing, octane, & combustion chamber geometry have MUCH more effect on detonation than a couple of degrees in the intake. The intercooler has nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally posted by rrmike
Once the air has passed through the turbo or blower then cooling it for the purpose of making it more dense is seemingly pointless. The charge of air in the intercooler is already set before the air is cooled. Making it more dense will not create more O2 molecules.
But making the air charge cooler/denser also reduces the head pressure at the turbo/SC outlet, which allows more flow in the same size pipe, so there's more free space in the engine compartment. And it has to be done after the compression because compression causes some of the heat & temperature that you're trying to get rid of.

The air charge isn't SET by any one part of the intake system - it depends on MANY factors, and reducing the pressure at any point will have a significant effect on total flow.
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG 6!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-26-2003, 10:06 AM
RRMike's Avatar
RRMike RRMike is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Roseburg OR.
Posts: 2,153
RRMike is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

Yeah I'm sure the ford engineers know better than me if cooling the air after it's been compressed helps. I was just thinking out loud. You are wrong on this point however.

Quote:
The few degrees of difference in intake temperature has no effect on detonation/preignition/dieseling. If it did, you'd have to reset your timing every summer. Spark plug type, ignition timing, octane, & combustion chamber geometry have MUCH more effect on detonation than a couple of degrees in the intake. The intercooler has nothing to do with it.
This is from this page on intercoolers.
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_intercooling.html


Quote:
Basically what Garry is trying to say is if you want to make "THE BIG POWER" your going to need an intercooler. Without an intercooler you are more prone to detonation & piston damage, limited on how much boost you can safely run on pump gas (about 15 psi vs 25 on the same gas) and how much power you can generate.

An intercooler can reduce intake air temp by as much as 200 degrees. Not a "few" degrees. They are specifically for running higher boost levels without detonation. This is what they were invented for.

Last edited by RRMike; 05-26-2003 at 10:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-26-2003, 02:22 PM
77'F-150Mudder 77'F-150Mudder is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 760
77'F-150Mudder is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

Cooling the air after the supercharger DOES make a difference. A big one. Compressing air causes the air temp to rise. Add supercharger heat soak to that and you can get an air charge that is 100-250 degrees hotter than ambient.

For perspective, I just sold my 98' Cobra that I had installed a Vortech S-trim. After installing an Aftercooler (Vortech's equivilent of an intercooler) I picked up 75hp at the rear wheels without any other tuning. The Aftercooler let me pull some fuel and add some timing which added another 40hp.

Roots style blowers (such as the one on the Lightning) are notoriously bad about heating up the air charge. A superchargers effeciency in compressing the air without adding heat is called "abdiatic effecincy". Centrifical S/Cs usually throw down the best #s while Roots S/Cs are the worst. This is likely why Ford designed this system. Cooler air going in means you can put more boost to the engine if you want, but even without more boost you will make more power on the same set up.

Supercharged engines are different animals and can't be compared to naturally aspirated engines.

It's a common misconception that stock engines won't hold up under more than 8-10 pounds of boost. With an intercooler and the proper tune most engines will live with say 15psi on pump gas. There are several variables here but in general that's true.
__________________
Scott
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-26-2003, 02:35 PM
steve83's Avatar
steve83 steve83 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 9,985
steve83 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

rrmike
Your quote relates to adding boost MUCH more than incoming air temp. I stand by original statement.

Mudder
The word is "adiabatic", which means "without change in energy (heat)".
__________________
Walk softly & carry a BIG 6!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-26-2003, 02:42 PM
77'F-150Mudder 77'F-150Mudder is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 760
77'F-150Mudder is starting off with a positive reputation.
Something to think about

Quote:
Originally posted by steve83
Mudder
The word is "adiabatic", which means "without change in energy (heat)".
Thanks Steve!! I always screw that word up.
__________________
Scott
Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 02:42 PM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup