What have I got myself into?
#16
10-20-2012, 12:16 PM
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kountze, Tx
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Thanks to ALL who have replied! I have gained a lot of insight. I do have a small amount of time left on my factory warrenty...I'm not exactly sure but will find out Monday.
I can definately see the advantages of a tuner and deleting the regen pipe but I also NEED to get some positive cash flow going before I spend $1300 more...
When finances allow I will more than likely be going this route but for now I think I will just have to watch the degas bottle closely and watch for radiator leaks, keep the fuel dry and use additives and see how the business pans out.
I was already seriously considering having the radiator flushed and refilled with fresh coolant because I can just imagine that it's close to 5 yrs old with no more miles than are on it....
Can my local mechanic shop who does radiator flushes on gas engines handle this task or should I go to the dealer where I bought it from???
Also, I am feeling the same way about about a tranny flush??? Local shop or Dealer??? OR Trusted strictly Automatic Tranny shop, locally owned and operated who I trust 110%, I think I just answered my own question on tha one....
I want to THANK EVERYONE who has made a newbie Diesel owner AND Ford owner feel welcome and for being so open with honest real world experience!!! This is a first class forum and I am Blessed to have found it!!!
Logan A.
I can definately see the advantages of a tuner and deleting the regen pipe but I also NEED to get some positive cash flow going before I spend $1300 more...
When finances allow I will more than likely be going this route but for now I think I will just have to watch the degas bottle closely and watch for radiator leaks, keep the fuel dry and use additives and see how the business pans out.
I was already seriously considering having the radiator flushed and refilled with fresh coolant because I can just imagine that it's close to 5 yrs old with no more miles than are on it....
Can my local mechanic shop who does radiator flushes on gas engines handle this task or should I go to the dealer where I bought it from???
Also, I am feeling the same way about about a tranny flush??? Local shop or Dealer??? OR Trusted strictly Automatic Tranny shop, locally owned and operated who I trust 110%, I think I just answered my own question on tha one....
I want to THANK EVERYONE who has made a newbie Diesel owner AND Ford owner feel welcome and for being so open with honest real world experience!!! This is a first class forum and I am Blessed to have found it!!!
Logan A.
#19
10-20-2012, 12:52 PM
#20
10-20-2012, 02:38 PM
#21
10-20-2012, 02:42 PM
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kountze, Tx
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I am going to check with the dealer I purchased it from first and check prices, I have a multitude of Ford Dealers in a 35 mile range, two within 15 miles of my house...the selling dealer should and I hope gives me the best price on these two important maintenance jobs.
Guys, I don't think y'all understand, I have a full time job, this is an investment venture for me, I am trying to start a small business, hiring a full-time driver to operate the truck. Trying to create a job, fill a need in the market place and make a little money for my son's college fund. That's why I was kinda freaked out when I first posted about this truck/engine combination. I literally stumbled across this truck and it was set up so perfect for the hotshot world, flatbed w/ GN and a removeable overhead piperack. It can run as a straight flatbed utilizing the OH piperack OR hook up a 14K flatbed GN trailer to it and increase useability variable greatly. I kinda leaped before I looked, but y'all have made me feel like I can get many good miles out of this truck/engine with diligent maintenance, which I strongly believe in anyway!!! I will eventually get a tuner and delete the "whatchamacallit" because that sounds like it's best for the engine in the long run, I don't like the idea of fuel being put back into the oil for any reason!!!
I am sure I'll be back with more questions as I get further along in this adventure. Also, FYI: I have worked from one end of the oil field to the other, drilling rigs to refinery, I know that any machine is only as good as the maintenance that it gets!!!!
THANKS FOR ALL OF Y'ALLS HELP!!!
Logan A.
Guys, I don't think y'all understand, I have a full time job, this is an investment venture for me, I am trying to start a small business, hiring a full-time driver to operate the truck. Trying to create a job, fill a need in the market place and make a little money for my son's college fund. That's why I was kinda freaked out when I first posted about this truck/engine combination. I literally stumbled across this truck and it was set up so perfect for the hotshot world, flatbed w/ GN and a removeable overhead piperack. It can run as a straight flatbed utilizing the OH piperack OR hook up a 14K flatbed GN trailer to it and increase useability variable greatly. I kinda leaped before I looked, but y'all have made me feel like I can get many good miles out of this truck/engine with diligent maintenance, which I strongly believe in anyway!!! I will eventually get a tuner and delete the "whatchamacallit" because that sounds like it's best for the engine in the long run, I don't like the idea of fuel being put back into the oil for any reason!!!
I am sure I'll be back with more questions as I get further along in this adventure. Also, FYI: I have worked from one end of the oil field to the other, drilling rigs to refinery, I know that any machine is only as good as the maintenance that it gets!!!!
THANKS FOR ALL OF Y'ALLS HELP!!!
Logan A.
#22
10-20-2012, 02:50 PM
I am going to check with the dealer I purchased it from first and check prices, I have a multitude of Ford Dealers in a 35 mile range, two within 15 miles of my house...the selling dealer should and I hope gives me the best price on these two important maintenance jobs.
......
I will eventually get a tuner and delete the "whatchamacallit" because that sounds like it's best for the engine in the long run, I don't like the idea of fuel being put back into the oil for any reason!!!
......
I will eventually get a tuner and delete the "whatchamacallit" because that sounds like it's best for the engine in the long run, I don't like the idea of fuel being put back into the oil for any reason!!!
In my opinion a tuner will do absolutely nothing to the things that are most likely to cause you lots of money. It won't do anything for the HPFP, cooling system, valvetrain, bedplate gasket, or anything else unrelated to the DPF. In fact two of these components recently failed in short succession to one of our members, and because he was untuned and had an ESP Ford ended up covering the $25K repair bill.
Your truck will be driven heavily loaded by someone who will more than likely drive it like he stole it. As a former commercial driver I know very well how people treat trucks that aren't theirs. The last thing you ever want to do to that truck is tune it.
#23
10-20-2012, 03:42 PM
A few thoughts:
- Removing emissions controls (DPF, CAT, EGR) is *illegal*.
- If you are operating a business with the truck you may be subject to DOT inspections and weigh stations, greatly increasing your risk of being caught operating illegally.
- If you are a operating a business with an illegal truck you are much more likely to get big $$$$ fines.
As for maintaing the 6.4, here are my standard recommendations:
If you have not owned one of the newer emissions controlled diesels previously (any brand), be aware that they are far more dependent on proper maintenance than earlier diesels.
Key 6.4 maintenance items:
* Oil changes every 5,000 miles, with quality oil (synthetic recommended), used oil analysis (Blackstone) for every change. Use only Motorcraft oil filters or the Racor (OEM) equivalent.
* Fuel filter changes every 10,000 miles. Use only Motorcraft FD4617 or the Racor (OEM) equivalent filters.
* Coolant nitrite testing at least every 15,000 miles. I recommend every 5,000 miles at the same time you do the oil change for simplicity, the test strips are inexpensive. Do not be confused by the test directions warning not to sample from an overflow tank, the 6.4 does not have an overflow tank it has a degas bottle. The degas bottle is part of the coolant loop with constant circulation so it is a valid testing point. I do not bother "taking a sample", I simply clip the test strip on the end of a long hemostat and dunk it in the degas bottle to test. If the test is below 800ppm and above 300ppm add two bottles of VC-8 additive. If below 300ppm the entire coolant system must be flushed with VC-9 cleaner, rinsed well and refilled with new coolant.
* Cooling system flush with VC-9 and refill with Ford Gold coolant every 60,000 miles, sooner if you have neglected testing and the nitrite is under 300ppm.
* Use a quality fuel conditioner such as the Ford PM-22a/23a conditioners at every fueling. They add lubricity to the fuel, something that ULSD is lacking in which helps protect the high pressure (up to 26,000 PSI) fuel pump. They also help to reduce soot production which results in less frequent DPF regens and less fuel dilution in the engine oil.
* Drain the HFCM water separator monthly. The fuel drained can be poured back into the tank carefully leaving behind any water at the bottom of the collection jar (normally very little). If the water separator drain does not flow well or at all, it may be clogged with either parafin blobs or with bacterial growth. In either case at a minimum the drain valve cover needs to be removed and the clog cleared. If the clog is significant the HFCM cover needs to be removed for full cleaning. If the clog is white and waxy it's parafin and not a significant issue. If the clog is brown or similar and more slimy it is bacterial growth and the fuel tank should be "shocked" with a biocide such as Power Service Bio-Kleen which should not be confused with their Diesel-Kleen.
* The truck should not be used for all short trips and stop and go traffic. The 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels need regular longer periods at highway speeds to allow proper DPF regeneration and to get to proper operating temperature to help reduce fuel contamination in the engine oil.
* The latest PCM flash (11B23) does not provide continuous indication of when a DPF regen is taking place, it does however add much improved engine monitoring for developing issues. Over time you will get to recognize the subtle changes, but I recommend adding something like the ScanGauge II which will allow you to monitor the DPF temperature which is a clear indication that a regen is in progress when over ~600F.
* Avoid shutting the truck down with a regen in progress. If you have to, run the engine at high idle for a few minutes in park before shutting down to allow the turbos to cool down to normal temperatures before shutdown. If you are interrupting the regens you will see it in your Blackstone report, otherwise you should see very little fuel dilution, <1%.
You should also absolutely get the Ford ESP extended warranty, any repairs to the 6.4 are expensive and a single big repair can easily cover the cost of the ESP warranty. The coolant nitrite testing that many people overlook *is* in the owner's manual diesel supplement, so if you neglect it Ford can deny warranty coverage for resulting damage.
Other Super Duty maintenance items:
* Change transfer case fluid every 60,000 miles.
* Change rear differential fluid every 50,000 miles on DANA axles (F350 DRW and up).
* Change transmission fluid and filter every 60,000 miles on Torqshift transmissions (100k on manual transmissions). If you have the early Torqshift with the external filter the interval is much shorter.
Resources:
Coolant test strips - Buy the 4pk, not the bottle of 50, the strips have expiration dates and you'll only need <10 per year. Most dealer parts counters should have the test strips, NAPA has them, or order direct from Acustrip.
http://acustrip.com/CTS-3_Retail_Order_Form.pdf
Used oil testing - Blackstone Labs, get the pre-paid 6pk of test kits to save a few bucks. You don't need the TBN option:
Order Now
Ford ESP extended warrantys - You can buy them online from real dealers, or use the online price from a real dealer to negotiate a better price from your local dealer. You absolutely want the ESP, while the 6.4 is not problematic as some claim as long as you maintain it properly, nearly any repair is big $ and one good one will cover the ESP cost:
Ford Extended Warranty - Genuine Ford ESP
DPF, oil, coolant temp monitoring - ScangaugeII, you will need to program the X-gauge commands for the 6.4:
ScanGauge - Trip Computer + Digitial Gauges + ScanTools
Ford Specific XGauges : Linear Logic : Home of the ScanGauge
- Removing emissions controls (DPF, CAT, EGR) is *illegal*.
- If you are operating a business with the truck you may be subject to DOT inspections and weigh stations, greatly increasing your risk of being caught operating illegally.
- If you are a operating a business with an illegal truck you are much more likely to get big $$$$ fines.
As for maintaing the 6.4, here are my standard recommendations:
If you have not owned one of the newer emissions controlled diesels previously (any brand), be aware that they are far more dependent on proper maintenance than earlier diesels.
Key 6.4 maintenance items:
* Oil changes every 5,000 miles, with quality oil (synthetic recommended), used oil analysis (Blackstone) for every change. Use only Motorcraft oil filters or the Racor (OEM) equivalent.
* Fuel filter changes every 10,000 miles. Use only Motorcraft FD4617 or the Racor (OEM) equivalent filters.
* Coolant nitrite testing at least every 15,000 miles. I recommend every 5,000 miles at the same time you do the oil change for simplicity, the test strips are inexpensive. Do not be confused by the test directions warning not to sample from an overflow tank, the 6.4 does not have an overflow tank it has a degas bottle. The degas bottle is part of the coolant loop with constant circulation so it is a valid testing point. I do not bother "taking a sample", I simply clip the test strip on the end of a long hemostat and dunk it in the degas bottle to test. If the test is below 800ppm and above 300ppm add two bottles of VC-8 additive. If below 300ppm the entire coolant system must be flushed with VC-9 cleaner, rinsed well and refilled with new coolant.
* Cooling system flush with VC-9 and refill with Ford Gold coolant every 60,000 miles, sooner if you have neglected testing and the nitrite is under 300ppm.
* Use a quality fuel conditioner such as the Ford PM-22a/23a conditioners at every fueling. They add lubricity to the fuel, something that ULSD is lacking in which helps protect the high pressure (up to 26,000 PSI) fuel pump. They also help to reduce soot production which results in less frequent DPF regens and less fuel dilution in the engine oil.
* Drain the HFCM water separator monthly. The fuel drained can be poured back into the tank carefully leaving behind any water at the bottom of the collection jar (normally very little). If the water separator drain does not flow well or at all, it may be clogged with either parafin blobs or with bacterial growth. In either case at a minimum the drain valve cover needs to be removed and the clog cleared. If the clog is significant the HFCM cover needs to be removed for full cleaning. If the clog is white and waxy it's parafin and not a significant issue. If the clog is brown or similar and more slimy it is bacterial growth and the fuel tank should be "shocked" with a biocide such as Power Service Bio-Kleen which should not be confused with their Diesel-Kleen.
* The truck should not be used for all short trips and stop and go traffic. The 6.4 and other emissions controlled diesels need regular longer periods at highway speeds to allow proper DPF regeneration and to get to proper operating temperature to help reduce fuel contamination in the engine oil.
* The latest PCM flash (11B23) does not provide continuous indication of when a DPF regen is taking place, it does however add much improved engine monitoring for developing issues. Over time you will get to recognize the subtle changes, but I recommend adding something like the ScanGauge II which will allow you to monitor the DPF temperature which is a clear indication that a regen is in progress when over ~600F.
* Avoid shutting the truck down with a regen in progress. If you have to, run the engine at high idle for a few minutes in park before shutting down to allow the turbos to cool down to normal temperatures before shutdown. If you are interrupting the regens you will see it in your Blackstone report, otherwise you should see very little fuel dilution, <1%.
You should also absolutely get the Ford ESP extended warranty, any repairs to the 6.4 are expensive and a single big repair can easily cover the cost of the ESP warranty. The coolant nitrite testing that many people overlook *is* in the owner's manual diesel supplement, so if you neglect it Ford can deny warranty coverage for resulting damage.
Other Super Duty maintenance items:
* Change transfer case fluid every 60,000 miles.
* Change rear differential fluid every 50,000 miles on DANA axles (F350 DRW and up).
* Change transmission fluid and filter every 60,000 miles on Torqshift transmissions (100k on manual transmissions). If you have the early Torqshift with the external filter the interval is much shorter.
Resources:
Coolant test strips - Buy the 4pk, not the bottle of 50, the strips have expiration dates and you'll only need <10 per year. Most dealer parts counters should have the test strips, NAPA has them, or order direct from Acustrip.
http://acustrip.com/CTS-3_Retail_Order_Form.pdf
Used oil testing - Blackstone Labs, get the pre-paid 6pk of test kits to save a few bucks. You don't need the TBN option:
Order Now
Ford ESP extended warrantys - You can buy them online from real dealers, or use the online price from a real dealer to negotiate a better price from your local dealer. You absolutely want the ESP, while the 6.4 is not problematic as some claim as long as you maintain it properly, nearly any repair is big $ and one good one will cover the ESP cost:
Ford Extended Warranty - Genuine Ford ESP
DPF, oil, coolant temp monitoring - ScangaugeII, you will need to program the X-gauge commands for the 6.4:
ScanGauge - Trip Computer + Digitial Gauges + ScanTools
Ford Specific XGauges : Linear Logic : Home of the ScanGauge
#24
10-21-2012, 06:52 AM
You can't have it both ways Logan. You can either buy an extended warranty and have some peace of mind in the event that something big breaks, or you can tune it and hope that nothing goes wrong. Unless your driver will have the entire stock exhaust system with him on the road and the capability of installing it on the side of the road your warranty will be useless in the event that something breaks.
In my opinion a tuner will do absolutely nothing to the things that are most likely to cause you lots of money. It won't do anything for the HPFP, cooling system, valvetrain, bedplate gasket, or anything else unrelated to the DPF. In fact two of these components recently failed in short succession to one of our members, and because he was untuned and had an ESP Ford ended up covering the $25K repair bill.
Your truck will be driven heavily loaded by someone who will more than likely drive it like he stole it. As a former commercial driver I know very well how people treat trucks that aren't theirs. The last thing you ever want to do to that truck is tune it.
In my opinion a tuner will do absolutely nothing to the things that are most likely to cause you lots of money. It won't do anything for the HPFP, cooling system, valvetrain, bedplate gasket, or anything else unrelated to the DPF. In fact two of these components recently failed in short succession to one of our members, and because he was untuned and had an ESP Ford ended up covering the $25K repair bill.
Your truck will be driven heavily loaded by someone who will more than likely drive it like he stole it. As a former commercial driver I know very well how people treat trucks that aren't theirs. The last thing you ever want to do to that truck is tune it.
That is one reason I choose the Banks 6-gun that I have. I can take that off in less than 5 minutes. Does not garantee that would not see it, but I can get it out of the way for proper diagnostics.
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