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Old 10-10-2012, 10:40 AM
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1989f250IDI 1989f250IDI is offline
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What should one know about bio's amd alternatives?

I currently run a 2 gallon of filtered motor oil or atf in each tank. I know the basics of somethings but wish to know more. My son is creating a 10-15 minute speech about alternative diesel fuels for class. I thought i would post here were people could talk free about the uses and cons of alternatives. And hopefully my son and i both learn more on the subject.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:44 PM
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well, start reading this forum!
i don't have much time to write today, but there are a few main points to consider
1) filter it
2) NEVER allow WMO/WTF to mix with your WVO or bio.
3) don't get greedy. some guys run like 90%, and suffer short fuel system life as a result. personally, my use has evolved from 10% to 25%, and thats about as far as i think i'm going to take it.

i'll try to give a few more thoughts later, gotta run
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:32 PM
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Why should'nt motor oil and atf be mixed? I have done that like twice now.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:50 PM
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what i meant to say is that your various automotive oils (WMO, WTF, etc), should never be mixed with waste vegetable oil. many people burn WVO or brew it into biodiesel. and thats fine, as long as the 2 categories are never mixed.
if someone does mix WMO with WVO, a black sludge will precipitate out and clog filters. you'll learn about this mistake if you do a search for threads by member "linus", he had quite the trouble from this mistake.

but to clarify what was unclear earlier, you're fine mixing waste engine oils, transmission oils, gear oils, etc with each other and with diesel.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:43 AM
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What are the benefits of running bio diesel other than cheaper fuel and it lubes the IP and possible mpg gain?
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:10 AM
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WMO and ATF can barely be considered 'alternative fuels'. However, at the ratios you are using them, they are more like additives anyway...

The cons:
-horrible emissions in the form of heavy metals, particulates and other toxics
-reduced engine and component life (WMO/ATF cause coking/carbon build-up in the combustion chamber and cause increased IP and injector wear)

The pros:
-don't outweigh the cons...

Biodiesel is better, but has a few issues. Mostly the concept of using FOOD to make fuel is inherently flawed. While not as bad as the ethanol we have shoved down our gasoline tanks' throats - this is still a terribly inefficient way to make motor vehicle fuel. Yes, bio-d made from 'used' VO (WVO) is better in this regard - but even using 100% of the WVO produced barely makes a splash in the pan as far as diesel consumption is concerned. While the combustion emissions are better than diesel, the chemicals and processes used to produce it put a big dent in the net gain here. Another issue is of course the cloud point/gel point of B100. This varies greatly with the feedstock used to produce it and can be anywhere from solid at 80* to gel points lower than diesel. The biggest issue with bio-d is shelf life. Currently, there are no additives that can insure any kind of shelf life - aka 'stability' for bio-d. In fact, NO commercially produced B100 still meets the ASTM standard for stability when it gets to the pump. This is largely why no OEM will recommend blends higher than B20 (however, don't expect them to honor the warranty if your fuel caused the truck or tractor to fail!!! )

Technically, B100 should yield lower MPG than diesel since it can have up to 10% less energy per gallon - but the MPG losses are not directly proportionate to the energy content (after all, we are dealing with an engine that only has like 30% efficiency )

Yes, bio-d has higher lubricity than ULSD. The drawback is the stability issue. There are places inside IP's that do not see a lot of fuel turnover and bio-d can polymerize in these places and cause failures. This is more of a problem when a vehicle is parked for an extended amount of time or not used frequently. I had a big problem with B100 in the diesel tank on my 2-tank WVO conversion because the B100 polymerized in the heads and injectors. This happened because I went 10,000 miles on a single tank of B100 (I only start and shut-down on this fuel). The polymerization reaction happened post-filter in the HOT carbon steel heads after turning the truck off. While this is unlikely to happen to someone using just bio-d, it definitely exposes the issues of this fuel's stability.

WVO is probably best as far as emissions, etc goes - but the sustainability issues are the same as using this 'waste' product for B100. There just isn't enough of it to go around. This product is used for everything from animal feed to cosmetics and competition for it to be used for fuel has driven the price of this commodity through the roof. Current commodity prices for WVO (yellow grease) are approaching $3/gal. Also, the engine needs to be 'converted' to attain long-term success using WVO as a fuel. The VO needs to be heated to attain adequate viscosity for proper atomization through the injectors and the combustion chamber also needs to be HOT in order to get complete combustion of this fuel. This means starting on pure diesel, so purging the engine of all VO before shut-down is necessary.

Yeah, if ya look around the 'net you can easily find people who do not agree with me on some of this - but in the several years I've been using 'alternative fuels', I've found those 'success stories' are generally short-lived or just not very believable. I would measure success by having similar maintenance and component life as diesel.

Let us know how the boys' speech goes!!!!!!!
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:10 AM
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