he is running stage 2's.....youre not gonna see an increase really.....with my stage 1's i basically get same as stock but more power.....its all in how you drive it as well.....

 

After trying to kill my economy with 75 MPH on the interstate, three mountain passes, bumper-to-bumper traffic in Seattle, conducting WOT tests with AE logging, and parking downhill (makes the gauge read a little lower) - my gauge is exactly where I'd expect it to be when I was more frugal with the stock sticks. I believe I haven't lost any economy at all, so I'm still 17-18 MPG daily driving and likely 19+ on the open road. I have a 650-mile run (each way) in November with almost no stops - that's when I'll get my open-road economy.

 

Interesting. Thanks both of you for the info. It seems like few if any people are confirming better fuel mileage with single shots. Not that I drank the kool aid...I would just like to read some confirmed first hand experienced better mileage. I personally might be back to the drawing board and get a set of stock sticks in that case. I've got 302k on mine and I still drive it everyday, so longevity is not lacking. The little extra money for the Stage 1s I was going to justify to myself with slightly better fuel mileage, but honestly the little increase in power makes me wonder about my transmission's continued reliability, etc.

 

I'd get the Stage 1's with the re-burn......IF you can live with getting at least a pyro gauge. I am a firm believer of monitoring everything though, I'd have gauges even if my ride was bone stock...

 

The increase in power isn't little. I have the same sticks as a stage 1, I just have the nozzles that get that measure of fuel out quicker.

I will say this about my truck: I beefed up the transmission and air flow before I sank bigger sticks in the heads... and it was a damn good thing I did, because this humble little upgrade is a big-un. The engineers at International selected the AC 160 injector for the T444E HO engine (same engine, more output). That means there are commercial trucks on the road with this configuration driving all the live-long day. It's a great and healthy mod, but it does open a door to possibly needing a better transmission (at 302K, yours may not last much longer) and definitely more air flow.

I mention the transmission, but there is more than one way to look at it: If it's about due anyway, you'll likely want a better transmission next time (HD, JW, BTS) - and your truck will be ready for the sticks. I made my choice because of something Pocket said: Go big and dial them back. That makes so much sense to me. You have a tuner, just tell Jody you want low EGTs and go easy on the torque. You will then be ready for when something else changes and you have the option to call Jody and say "I'd like to get that leash cutter now." It's the same price and the tuning is included. Your buying an option to go big if you choose, but you run the risk of not liking how the single-shots sound. I don't have a recording yet, we're still dialing a few things. I might have one tonight.

 

Good point tugly. Longevity is as much treatment as anything. I have a lot of faith in my tranny. It shifts like new and has had religious fluid changes its whole life. I also doubt I am as hard as most people with the truck after a modification. I have gotten into the throttle for passing and the like with my tuner in, but really I just love the torque for the low rpm drivability and ability to pass quickly when really needed.

 

Ok, ?

I hear people say, buy big (injectors) and have the tuner dial them back. If you want down the road have them turned up.

Does it take any more HPO to run a larger CC injector vs a smaller one for the same power level?

 

No...

PW determines HPO use on an injector...

If it takes 4ms to empty a 140cc injector out a stock nozzle, a 160cc injector with 100% nozzles can do it in 3ms... Meaning less HPO usage.

 

Mpg update with my single shots.
I have. 4.10's BTW, 15 mpg highway, cruise set at 75.
I was able to squeeze 17 mpg if I kept the tach at/ under 2000, unfortunately that means 62 mph....not happening.

 

Thanks Joe for the clarification.

Why wouldn't someone buy the biggest they can get if they are the same price?

400-450HP goal:

Ex:
205/100 430-460HP $1850
238/100 475-550HP $1850
250/100 480-550HP $1850



Also, do you know if the Swamps 175/146 uses "new" or "reconditioned" stock nozzles?

 

It used to not be that way, costs went up when you went up in CC... things have changed.

250-200 is my injector of choice for most play trucks, but for a truck that is expected to work for its living, a 160/100 injector is a perfect match.

I do not know if Swamps uses new or recon nozzles, that would be a question for them.

 

Thanks Joe for knowing and sharing your knowledge on the facts of HPO useage with single shot injectors.

So my question is what is the difference in PW on a:
160cc single shot with stock nozzle
160cc single shot with 30% nozzle
160cc single shot with 100% nozzle

Please correct me if I am wrong but after reading and trying to learn all I can about single shot injector. The fact (If I am correct?) of the matter is that with single shot injectors a tuner can reconfigure the PW and injection timing to a much more refined setting than you can with split shot injectors. Hence more power and a cleaner burn.

And as I try to decide which way to go when it comes time for me to install injectors. I will be installing single shots, but where I am still unsure is in what nozzle size to go with versus the cost of nozzle upgrades. I am leaning torward Swamps 175cc single shot stock nozzle or a 160cc single shot with ????? nozzle size. My goal is 350hp and something that will be easy on HPO and fuel.

 

Don't forget about those 80% nozzles....lol.

Looks like 160/30 and 175/stock fall in the same HP range. 350-370HP

I'm wondering how much difference the nozzle atomization makes?

 

Very good point ! That and does 160/30 and 175/stock have the same PW? I would think a 160/30 would have a shorter PW that the 175/stock. But if they both flow about the same and PW is close I am thinking the 175/stock is the most cost effective way to go. Since it seem nozzle upgrades are $80 per injector.
These are the things I would like to know.

 

Bigger nozzles mean you can inject the same amount of fuel in less time.

Longer PW means you are dumping fuel after 'optimum' time and this makes smoke and high EGT's. No reason for 'stock' nozzles if you have good tuning. I agree w/Joe an 80-100% over nozzle is probably ideal. The 'cc' size doesn't make any difference since the nozzle ultimately determines how much/how fast.

I have driven a truck with 250/200's and GTX4294 and in 'stock' tune (prolly close to 400HP ) it ran like a stock truck with a hot tune. Just driving around like a normal person - you would never know this CC 4wd could run mid-12's in the 1/4mi. There was NO hazing at idle (in warm weather anyway) and the only smoke was from stomping on the loud pedal - although you could break traction by rolling into the throttle and never see ANY smoke. In fact, in all but the highest HP tunes this truck would only smoke for a second even when snapping the accelerator pedal. Same truck could also pull 18k lb trailer with less-than-stock EGT's. It ruined me... I want my trucks to run like THAT!