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Old 09-11-2012, 11:10 PM
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running on vegitable oil easy??

Was think on buying my uncle '95 f-250 7.3 power stroke 4x4 and was thinking on converting it to run off waste vegitable oil and was wondering if anyone knew any info on it. like if it would hurt the engine after awhile or any other key facts
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:51 PM
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flipt my switch back in April/12. Got 12k miles + and couldnt be more stoked. My pics are in my album. Can install/diy wvo system, but for the life of me, cant not figure how to load pics....lol
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:58 PM
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Ok so i was thinking about buying an easy install kit, and was wondering how the filtration of the oil works
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:16 PM
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I've been running on veggie oil since Feb when I got mytruck

at first I was filtering through blue-jeans, put one leg inside other and tie ends shut
pour oil down leg and drain into bucket- double-leg jeans probably 5micron

I just completed my 3,200 mile trip from Virginia to California
I left with 3 55gal barrels of veggie

ran into trouble when I got some veggie in nebraska from a mexican joint- they use Lard, only get oil from asian places!!

anyway, main problem with veggie is if it clogs your filter it could destroy IP very fast, which is what happened to me!

MY TRUCK HAS NO CONVERSION NOR DOES IT NEED ONE

I HAVE BEEN RUNNING MY TRUCK ON 100% VEGGIE START AND STOP
NO PROBLEMS

CANT RUN ON VEGGIE NOW CAUSE EATON SENT ME HIS BACK-UP IP AND I GAVE MY WORD I WOULDNT USE VEGGIE WITH HIS IP
LOL

I TOOK OUT INJECTORS AND INJECTOR PUMP AND AFTER 10,000 MILES OF USING VEGGIE OIL, USED MOTOR OIL, HEATING OIL, ATF, ETC I HAVE SEEN NO BUILDUP OR DAMAGE DUE TO VEGGIE OIL OR OTHER FUELS

IT IS BEST TO MIX VEGGIE WITH SOME KEROSENE OR DIESEL, 2-3 GAL PER TANKFUL IS ENOUGH, AS DIESEL MAKES MORE POWER AND BETTER FLOW- LESS VISCOUS THAN VEGGIE

BUY ANY "KIT" AT YOUR OWN RISK AS YOU REALLY ONLY NEED A DIY KIT MADE BY YOU!

IF YOU HAVE A 2 TANK TRUCK, SIMPLY SEPARATE THE DIESEL TANK/RETURNS FROM THE VEGGIE SIDE AND HAVE A SEPARATE FILTER FOR EACH

BEST TO HAVE A DUAL FILTER SETUP ON THE VEGGIE SIDE

TO FILTER ANYTHING NOW BEFORE IT GOES INTO TANK I BOUGHT A 12V MARINE PUMP FROM HARBOR FREIGHT FOR $40, SOME FITTINGS AND GARDEN HOSE
BOUGHT A WHOLE-HOUSE FILTER FROM LOWES FOR $30 AND GET A TWO-PACK OF REPLACEMENT FILTERS (5 MICRON) ALSO FROM LOWES
PUT WHOLE-HOUSE FILTER ON PUSH-SIDE OF 12V PUMP

AGAIN I HAVE NO HEATERS, ETC ON MY TRUCK AND IT LOVES VEGGIE

FOR WINTER OBVIOUSLY YOU NEED TO HEAT THE VEGGIE SOME

BIG BIG POINT-
BURNING VEGGIE SEEMS TO PUT FLAKES INTO THE FUEL SYSTEM, BEST TO ATTACH A FILTER ALSO TO YOUR RETURN LINE TO VEGGIE TANK

I THINK FLAKES ARE A BYPRODUCT OF THE VEGGIE GETTING HOT THEN COOLING WHEN IT RETURNS TO TANK??

THESE FLAKES WILL CLOG YOUR FILTER AT SOME POINT!!

TRY TO CONVERT YOUR FILTER AND GET ONE FROM TRACTOR SUPPLY, ETC AND USE A GOLDENROD SEE-THRU FILTER
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:51 PM
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FORD-or-Die,

You can convert a PSD to run on veggie just as easily as the older IDI trucks. You will have slightly better results running it without pre-heating because you have a PSD and by design, the fuel system is exposed to more heat before it reaches the injectors. Your fuel filter is on top of the engine where there is more heat and the fuel rail is close to the engine. I still highly suggest a 2 tank system with an inline heat exchanger. You also have an advantage because your injectors pop at a higher pressure and will atomize the fuel better for a more complete burn. You can also buy a tuner and change the injection timing to be a few degrees advanced to give the thicker fuel a little more burn time. Your disadvantage is your injectors are much more complicated and the tolerances are much lower than IDI tolerances. Your injectors also cost about 7x as much. You don't even want to know what a HPOP goes for.

If I run WVO, I cut it with about 10-15% gasoline, let it settle, filter and run it. I run more waste engine and transmission oil than WVO but I got a few small cubies from a guy I work with. The oil was very clean, so I felt good about running it. No problems so far. I put it in my car which had about 5 gallons of D2 already in the tank. It ran great. The exhaust smelled like burnt cooking oil if you leave it on a hot pan too long.


Linus72,

When you get settled, send me your old injectors and I will pop test them for you. I'm curious to see if they are bad, clogged or what.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:00 PM
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i would like to do this the proper way and install a kit would i still have to dewater it before it runs through the kit?? and im not going to strictly do veggie oil but ATF motor oil etc..
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:22 PM
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sure will Eatont999!
would love to hear why you think my IP wont run diesel but only thicker on the cali thread??

my old injectors are BB, the ones sent to me were A (6) and 2 D codes
whats the differences??

I do love running free fuel though- oil,veggie, whatever!
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD-or-Die View Post
i would like to do this the proper way and install a kit would i still have to dewater it before it runs through the kit?? and im not going to strictly do veggie oil but ATF motor oil etc..
Don't mix veggie with any dino oil in your tank. You can mix it with clean diesel or a little gasoline but not with WMO or WATF. The veggie will cause the suspended micro particles in the used oil to precipitate out and create a kind of sludge that will clog filters and gum up your injectors. You can mix them before hand and drain off the sludge but don't do it in the fuel tank of your truck. Linus72 figured this out the hard way IIRC.

There are different ways of dewatering. Some guys like to mix the veggie with gas, diesel, or kerosene and let the water and particulate settle out. Some guys use heat and recirculate the oil in an open container. Some guys use heat and pass the oil through a centrifuge. A centrifuge is arguably the best way to clean waste oils but it does cost some money.


Linus72,

Veggie oil to me is a tricky oil to run in a Diesel. The long term effects and engine damage of improperly running veggie are well known. I don't have the resources right now to correctly run it, so I stick with the waste dino oil. Basically, if you get a clean supply, cut it, let it settle and filter it, you are done. Bio Diesel is even more complicated. I'm not Walter White, so I stay away from that as well.

Firstly, I suspect a lift pump issue on your truck. Secondly, if the IP is worn and the tolerances are no longer there, it will not be able to build up pop pressure to pop the injectors. The thicker fuel fills the gaps in the internals of the pump and allows it to get up to pop pressure. The pump I sent you has always worked fine for me, that is why I doubt it is the IP.

Injector codes mean little to me because they could have been rebuilt or they have all settled to a similar pop pressure. You need to pop test any injector before you know if it matches the others.
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1983 300SD - Needs lots of love. UMO test vehicle.
"I gave y'all a couple 'a good ol' revs of the straight pipe, so if y'all got any b!+ch'n 'er complainin', go ahead and keep it to yourself." -- Me
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2012, 07:47 PM
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I don't know that I would call it easy.. It has certainly been a learning experience for me. I have been running Veggie since March, and while the conversion is easily done if you are at all mechanically inclined and understand basic machinery. The time and effort involved with the processing and finding the oil is what takes the "ease" out of the equation for me.. Luckily I have an understanding wife whom doesn't mind all the oil stains, dead grass, and barrels of oil under the porch. It is time consuming, but it is also nice running cheap or free fuel as you drive past a fuel station asking 4+ dollars a gallons..
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2012, 08:27 PM
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Rocketman can you explain how you filter it, and do you strictly do wvo or have you tried makeing biodiesel?
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2012, 12:59 AM
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Wow... Ok, yes - these trucks will run fine on VO with no 'conversion', right up until they don't run 'fine' anymore - and then its too late. MANY people have figured this out the hard way after touting that a conversion wasn't necessary - but in the years I've been doing this, they almost never come back and say they were wrong. I am generally skeptical of those who claim they have had long-term success, but think certain environments and the way the truck is used can lend itself to longer 'success' than others.

Anyway, to answer your questions - yes, there is a proven method for being able to run your truck on WVO for 100's of 1000's of miles without problems. I have 170,000 miles on VO in my dually and 100k on my Excursion and have yet to have the first VO-related issue.

In a nutshell, you need to be able to remove all of the VO from the engine before ya shut it down. To do this, ya need a 2nd fuel system that mimics the stock system and you need to keep 100% of the VO out of the diesel tank. You'll 'purge' the VO from the injectors and heads before shutdown. Additionally, the VO will need to be heated so it atomizes properly thru the injectors. Anything less has a long track record of failure.

As far as dewatering, the easiest/cheapest method is simple Heat & Settle. The water is heavier than the oil, so left alone it will eventually separate. We expedite this process by warming the oil up (110-120* is plenty) to reduce the viscosity so the water can 'fall out' easier. Then, with the heat off, let it settle for 48 hrs or longer and drain the water off the bottom. At this point, you can test the oil for water and if its 'dry' at the bottom - the rest will be dry too.

I strain the chunks and large spices etc out using nylon paint strainer bags (~200mic - not much more than window screen) before dewatering. Then, I used blue jean legs sewn into 'bag filters' as my initial filter for a loooong time. These are CHEAP/free and can be very effective at making your 'real' filters last longer. Although effective, the oil needs to be warm and they are still SLOW... By real filters, I mean absolute-rated FUEL filters. I suggest using a 10mic goldenrod transfer tank-type filter as a minimum and recommend using a 2mic spin-on fuel filter as a final filter. This combo of H&S and filters provides me with 15-20k miles on the on-truck fuel filters.

Water filters and other compromised solutions don't work as well and are ultimately less cost effective anyway. Water-Block filters cannot/will not/do not 'remove' water from WVO - but they do cost more. Don't waste your $$$.

I'd be happy to be more specific about the conversion and share part#'s, sources, etc for the filtering stuff.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:18 AM
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Well I do pretty much what Jason said.. I let it settle, with a twist the last few batches I have used the upflow settling model (do a google search). It does not require heat, but does require alot of oil. I start by straining my oil through an old t-shirt into a 30 gal barrel, from there the oil drains into a 55 gal drum, the settling barrel. This barrel is then siphoned from the top for clean water free oil through a 5 micron filter bag into a final storage barrel. I have no clue how to post pictures, but if you send me an email I can send you a picture of my setup.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman2440 View Post
I have no clue how to post pictures, but if you send me an email I can send you a picture of my setup.
Go to photobucket.com and start a (free) account. Upload pics to there and select the 'img' link, then paste that link into your post. Very easy, really!!

Here's a blurry pic of the last 'still' I built using a water heater:
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I didn't use that 3-filter manifold long. It was designed to use a 30mic, 10mic then 2mic filter, but I found the 30mic was not very economical at ~$15ea. I was getting the 10mic goldenrod elements for $5 and as long as I 'pre-settle' the oil for a couple weeks before going in the still - they last a long time.

Some of the advantages to using a WH are:
- it already has fittings in good places for this application
- it is insulated
- it has heating elements and thermostats in it (we only use the lower element and typically run it at 110V)
- since it is a pressure vessel, we can use compressed air to push oil out of it thru filters - this is soooooo much better than any 'affordable' pump!!!
- we can also pull a vacuum in the tank to fill it and also for 'vacuum dewatering' (effectively boiling the water off by reducing the boiling point to ambient temp). This can be effective for really stubborn oil that is partially hydrogenated or high in fats.
- They come in a variety of shapes and sizes from 30gal to 80gal
- best of all, you can usually get 'discarded' WH's for FREEEE!!

I collect oil using a 275gal tote on a trailer. When it comes home, I park it beside the 'grease shed' until I'm going to collect again 2-3 weeks later. Then, I pull the oil 'off the top' of the collection tote and pump it thru the ~200mic strainer bag into the 'dirty' tote in the shed. Its already pretty clean and dry at this point... After that settles a couple days, I start pulling oil off the top of the dirty tote using a floating suction and fill up the still. Heat still to 110-120*F (3-4hrs at 110v), turn off heat and let settle for 48hrs. Drain a couple gals (at most) off bottom and test for water. If its dry, use air to push the oil thru goldenrod and 2mic BioTek filter into trucks. Finally, enjoy 15-20k mile filter changes on the truck with a total investment of about $0.10 - $0.15/gal including gasoline for the collection pump, electricity and filters.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:23 AM
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gotta agree with "rocketman". VERY time consuming, but worth the time and savings you'll eventually see.

My filtration (hat home), is what you said Jason, i use the "heavy" doubled up window screen over a 55gal barrell. It collects the heavy crap. From there, i pull 15gal and filter then thru a shirt into a transferring barrel (20gal). Once thats done, i bring the oil into the garage where theres 2-barrels. One for the ready to filter/fuge oil, the other is the holding tank for the "ready to burn" oil. The oil goes thru 3-stages of house filter..(100, 50, 20 microns). Then i heat the oil, using water heater elements. Once up to 180*-ish, i pump the oil thru a house ceiling sprinkler for de-watering. You can see the steam just bellow out. Once thats ran, depending on how big the batch, i then pressure the oil thru a P.A. centrifuge, for atleast 2 hours.

After the fuge, let it settle, and to room temp, then i push oil thru a 5 and 1 micron, into the holding tank.

That PA fugereally works well. It gets all that suspended black sooty crap from the oil. I couldnt believe what was left in there, after my firtst fuge batch. My poor injectors/cylinders, after a month of new fuging.

Pics are in album.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:01 PM
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here is a crappy picture of my cold upflow settling rig. It isn't perfect, but it gets the job done for now. As more money and time comes I will improve upon the system. IMG_0181 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I pour the oil through a t-shirt into the auto zone barrel at the top, from there I drain the oil into the blue settling tank via a 2 ft pvc pipe (that way it doesn't upset what is settled at the bottom. I then pull the clean oil off the top through a 5 micron filter bag and into the storage tank.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:01 PM
 
 
 
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