Howdy!

FWIW...here's the Background:

I recently bought a 2001 Eldorado 'Aerolite' (shuttle-bus) built on a Ford E350 chassis with a 7.3L PowerStroke diesel (168K mi.); and previously owned by a private transit service operation here in central Texas.

The bus had been recently retired from service and put up for auction, as is typical for private or metro-transit service outfits. I purchased the bus from a large-volume 'salvage' dealer who specializes in supplying the commercial-fleet truck market with perfectly serviceable powertrains pulled from a variety of 'retired' or auctioned vehicles being otherwise less-easily re-marketed as 'complete' units.

I was told that upon a more thorough (post-auction) inspection, the dealer subsequently determined that the entire bus was in good enough condition on it's own merits... and that ultimately there was little reason to trash the whole bus just to scavenge the engine & transmission alone.

The salvage-dealer apparently had (& occasionally drove) it for about 3 months prior to my purchase. My initial overall inspection revealed evidence that the vehicle was probably fairly well maintained during its service term, and at least one (if not both) of the 2 alternators looks to have been recently replaced. The front (under-hood) battery's date-sticker shows it to also be only few months old.

The bus is equipped with the dual-alternator option, a wheelchair lift, some kind of engine idle-speed controller box mounted on the engine cover, and what appears to be a battery 'isolator' switch mounted down by the driver's seat base just inside the door. There is also a safety toggle switch (similar to a fighter-jet's ordnance "pickle-button") which is also mounted on the engine cover (auxiliary switch panel). This switch is supposed to be part of the safety interlock system for the wheelchair lift (as was explained to me rather *briefly* when I first took possession of the bus).

It was 'explained' to me that the the battery-isolator switch, the safety toggle switch, the idle-speed controller box, and (curiously) the emergency brake... all work in concert within the wheelchair lift's safe-operation circuitry.

Apparently the idle-speed control box is part of a battery-charge protection system necessary for avoiding excessive battery drainage when using either the wheelchair lift or perhaps (I assume) any other auxiliary electrical equipment subsequently added by the private bus manufacturer.

When I asked about operating the wheelchair lift.. one of the dealer's shop monkeys was called out to give me a run-down on the multi-step deployment procedure. But it was immediately clear that the poor fellow really was only guessing and just didn't quite fully understand the interlock or engine idle-speed battery protection controller system. The idle-speed controller box itself has no identification markings at all except that one of the (4) buttons has the official 'Ford' logo clearly molded into it by design; --thus indicating the controller is in fact a Ford product.

The Problem;

When I went to retrieve the bus at the dealer's location (about 85 miles away), I drove it first to a relative's house located on the return route during my trip home. Starting out from the the dealer's location everything appeared fine with no starting problems nor any outwardly evident charging issues during the first leg of the trip back. All indications on the dash panel were good, including the dash charging gauge. On arriving at my relative's place about (25miles from home) the bus was then shut down and allowed to sit for about 4 hours before I tried to start it again to resume my trip home. It would not turn over however, and clearly presented symptoms of a drained starting battery supply. We then jump-started the engine and at that time, the dash gauge showed a voltage reading pegged at the 8volt lower limit.

Obviously there was something wrong. It was late Friday afternoon (and my brother-in-law always keeps plenty of cold beer on hand) so I simply removed both battery cables and proceeded to trickle charge (2amp rate) the under-hood battery overnight at my relative's place. The very next morning I was able to start and drive the bus the last 25 miles back just fine (charging looked fine on the dash gauge too)... but then on arrival back home I once more experienced the same drained battery symptoms as described above.

From the very beginning, I've experienced a problem with an unknown battery drain of approx. 8.1amps (with the engine warmed up) and with all known electrical switches, fans, and any other obvious electrical equipment controls all turned OFF. -- With a cool engine however, the drain seems to drop to about 4amps.

~ so I'm immediately suspecting a chaffed cable or similar such thing right off the bat. As of yet however, I've not yet had an opportunity to crawl underneath and thoroughly inspect the second battery or connecting cable-runs.

I'm beginning to suspect now (judging by the new battery & alternator(s).. that the dealer and his shop guys may very well have been wrestling with the same issue(s?) prior to my happy arrival on the scene.

A call to the Houston Eldorado Bus dealer with a query as to the availability of any sort of vehicle service manuals, wiring schematics, or any other type of wiring info... proved to be utterly disappointing and fruitless. Gee..what a surprise!


Summary:

This is my first diesel vehicle, so I understand my learning curve is perhaps a little steeper than average. I don't claim to be any kind of expert by any means... but I'm an older fart with a fair share of exposure to DIY auto-mechanic work over the many long years. I do claim competence in determining when a beer is acceptably cold enough to drink and when it's not though.. and I've got a background in electronics, intermediate industrial control systems, and other various electrical stuff in general. ~ So I'm basically a seasoned shade-tree beer-mechanic who's somewhat well-acquainted with the whimsical mischief of those cute and ever-playful electro-gremlins.

But the simple fact remains...I really need the proper wiring data.

I've managed to dig up some web-based leads such as imarksweb.com, helminc.com, firstclass-download.com, and what looks to be some curious fellow in Romania(?) who claims to offer ALL the service info anyone could ever need[?]. But all of those web-leads would have me pay an (initially obscured) up-front subscription fee in order to gain access to whatever stuff they're hawking WITHOUT first providing any means whatsoever for assessing the true worthiness thereof.

So... Frankly (excuse me Franklin)..but because I'm still fresh outta' the chute with my new Ford Bus-Beast....I simply have far more confidence in the folks here at ford-trucks.com.

And Finally ~ Since I'm about to embark on an Electric-KungFu diagnostics journey, I'm hoping someone can steer me toward a truly useful (*genuine*?) resource for acquiring complete and appropriate wiring schematics, diagrams, or any other pertinent wiring info suitable for the imminent task at hand.

Of course any tips, tricks, reminders, snide remarks, and ample appropriate heckling is always welcome and appreciated too. ~ as long as there's still cold beer available in the fridge that is....

Thanks all.
Dave

 

You probably won't find any diagram with everything on it. If you are lucky, you will find the original incomplete chassis diagram from Ford, a diagram from the bus body manufacturer, and individual diagrams for each add-on device, such as the chair lift, the battery controls, etc.

What I would do is get it set up however you had it to read these drains you are seeing. Then simply scope out where the chair lift ties in, and disconnect it. Then check the drain. Disconnect each added piece from the batteries till you get the drain to go away. Both the 8 and 4 amp drains are not acceptable, you should be way less than a amp, more like .07 amps or less.

Are you going to keep this thing as original and use it as a bus?

 

Thanks Dave for the suggestions. They are spot-on with what I was thinking too.

No, the bus purchase pivots on the intent of outfitting the interior with a few more comfortable "semi-rv" amenities. Nothing terribly fancy. Just enough to allow for extended 'daytrips' out & about for my 82 yr. old mom ..... just so I can take her out to see some of the parks and other neat stuff to visit right here in the lone-star state (while she still can). I'm figuring a maximum of 2 or 3 day (round-trip) out & back excursions comprised of 50-75 mi. legs with lots of stops for sightseeing etc.; all the while staying overnight mostly in quiet motels along the way.

As for troubleshooting strategies on the power drain; good advice you offer. And another approach I'll possibly try is to remove all known fuses and relays... and replace them each, one by one.... till the drain re-appears. It's just a functionally equivalent technique in my view.

<chuckle>... I would imagine and hope that it wouldn't require all that much luck to eventually obtain a useful schematic on the base E350 PSD chassis wiring for the units sold by Ford in 2001. And these must have (presumably) been provided to the many customers who were buying (or subsequently servicing) them back then. -- Hence my request here.

Cheers -

 

You may find even if you disconnect the fuse panel hot lead that you will STILL have that short.... search for any IN-LINE fuses going to any of the add-on accessories.....

 

You can look at Autozone's diagrams for a e350, but I don't think they have one for a chassis unit like yours. But some of the stuff might be the same. And you can go here Service Manuals, Owner Manuals, Wiring Diagrams, Service Bulletins - Helm Incorporated and order one if they have it in stock. It won't be cheap though.

 

Thanks Dave for the link to the Helminc.com site for service manuals etc.

Finally got a chance to spend the 15min necessary to see if the drain-fault would disappear by pulling fuses/relays (one by one) as suggested.

... no luck.

However, the current drain seems to have dropped further down to about 2amps just with the vehicle sitting for 5 or 6 days. That's still way too high of course.. and BPofMD's reminder that the fault may yet remain has unfortunately proven true (thanks for the tip BP!)
-- Next item on the agenda is to drop the second battery under the chassis (looks like a PITA) and run a hydrometer test on all cells in both batteries and see what we get.

The good news is that I managed to score copies of the Ford E-series workshop manuals (vol.1 & 2) AND two copies (2ea.) of the Ford E-series Wiring Diagrams manuals as well. All for a total of about $75 (including shipping). -- Rather pleased with that find... as helminc.com sells the new ones for $180 & $79 respectively.

The bad news is that the shop manuals are being shipped USPS 'media-mail'...so who knows when they'll get here. Nothing to do but wait I suppose.

 

I think you'll find that "media mail" is fairly quick. Good luck with the problem. Problem is "what did the original owner jury-rig " into the electric system?????

 

I did in fact find 'media-mail' to be much quicker than anticipated. So now I've got about 12 pounds of Ford manuals on hand for The Beast.

And as for that last tidbit comment.. "Problem is..what did the original owner jury-rig.." ...well... No truer words of wisdom could anyone ask for.
Thanks for the wise tip Bud!

I'm still deep into the process at the moment... but not only did I find that the auxiliary battery proved to be defective (causing a drain on the primary battery ~ so thus replaced)... but I've ferreted-out that both alternators are apparently DOA (not charging).

But Wait!... it also appears that someone has totally bypassed the fusible-link charging cables (output from the alternators) running directly to the battery-bank B+ side.(???) ~ They were very thoughtful of course... cuz they employed a nice fat, totally unfused, #4 cable to do so.

~ So am I surprised the alternators aren't now doing their proper duty??

And a rather knowledgeable friend of mine has remarked to me... "pffft...nuth'n new about that one... shop-monkeys have been known to do that all the time."

Aww shucks... and I was so hoping for a quick&simple fix.

~ more to come as the diagnostics effort progresses.

 

Good luck, man..... I know this isn't a FUN trip!

 

Even though this post is ~8 years old, I'm super curious what your problem boiled down to? I recently purchased a 2007 Eldorado shuttle on a E450 cut away, my engine is the dreaded 6L, but I am experiencing almost exactly what your describing. Any help or direction you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

The OP Dave R was last here back in February of 2014. Other's might have helpful suggestions but its highly unlikely Dave R will reply.

 

Hi I have a Ford E350 1998 shuttle bus that I'm having a desperate problem overcoming a no start situation after attempting to put a new stereo in I'm sure it has something to do with the wheelchair lift interlock. I'm having the same problem finding any wiring diagrams that would help and I'm stuck stranded and worrying about my vehicle which is also my home getting towed away! Could you possibly care to share your diagrams you were able to get with a desperate soul like myself? You'd be a hero for sure, thanks!

 

The OP Dave R was last here back in February of 2014. Other's might have helpful suggestions but its highly unlikely Dave R will reply.

 

I am going to give you a suggestion with some apprehension on my part. I have access to repair data and wiring diagrams through my library. I went and got a library card, and then go to the library site and they have a online resources section and in that section they have a "Chilton's Library". Some of the later models like your 98 e350 have good official diagrams and they also have mechanical help also. You should be able to get a library card from wherever you call home or have an address, and then be able to access it anywhere you happen to be online. I just have to use my library card number as a password.

I said I am telling you this with apprehension, because each time I find a place to get diagrams and such, you may have seen them in some old posts, they are eventually shut down. Autozone used to carry these diagrams and help info, and after awhile just the Ford section was shutdown on their site, the GM and other brand info is still available as far as I know. Ford or the people who buy the rights from Ford are relentless in trying to keep you from accessing any of this information. It's getting worse and worse with many types and brands of newer equipment. Enjoy it while you can.