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  #1  
Old 08-17-2012, 07:17 PM
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Alternator, Batteries,Charging System confirmation.

Hi guys, I've been reading several threads including the recent "Alternator going down" and it seems that my ALT. has craped out. I will be ordering a DC but would like some questions confirmed and also to make it easier for others to find answers.
1. Do all 6.0L have only one ALT.?
2. Should the ALT. put out power when the main,large,red cable is not connected ?
3. Can you charge dual batteries while they are in the truck and hooked up, with a smart charger ? on any setting, trickle, slow, fast ?
4. If not, what is the difference from this and a batt. maintainer or hooking them together (not hooked to truck) neg to neg and pos to pos then charging at 5 amps (i think is what i read)?

As for my situation, the batt's (napa, new 03-2012) were dead enough for truck to not crank (about 11.4v i think) did jump start easy, no batt. light, parked right away. charged batt's seperately un-hooked. Showed 12.74v (each,un-hooked) 2-3 days after full charge. Keeps charge hooked to truck. After a few test starts has 12.68v not running, 12.48v while running (after glow plugs stop no, accessories on). (readings at drivers batt. and alt. are about .01-.02 less than pass. batt.).both small wires on the plug to ALT. are hot after glow plugs stop. The ALT. puts out less than 1v when batt. cable is not hooked to ALT. The batt. light has never appeared (except with ignition on b4 start) but the ABS light does come on when batt's get low.

(all readings by digital volt meter,no gauges yet)

So from what I understand, I deffinatly have a bad ALT. correct?

If I am missing something please let me know. As always thank you guys for the excelent help/advise.

Scott
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:10 PM
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Don't know numbers but quite a few 6.0's have dual alternators. They were for ambulances and other similar heavy duty configurations. I would think an alternator should make power when disconnected from the batteries, I have jump started quite a few and removed the battery while it was running. That used to be a quick way to see if the alternator was "putting out". I haven't done that in a long time however, and it may not be true on late model vehicles. If I remember correctly, a 6.0 with a single alternator has an internal regulator and I believe it should be putting out, while on a dual alternator set up the PCM controls at least one alternator (and maybe both). If you are seeing 0v when it's disconnected, a parts store test bench will pronounce it dead real quick as it's not a intermittent issue. Also the fact that battery voltage doesn't rise after glow plugs go off isn't right but battery light should be on. Thats odd as the battery light seems to work pretty well on these trucks.
The batteries are wired parallel (+ to + and -to -) so if all the connections are good it acts like one large 12v battery. Any charger should bring up both batteries together but the amp rating on the charger is for one battery so if charging rate is 5amps, each battery will only see half that.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Axlerod View Post
Don't know numbers but quite a few 6.0's have dual alternators. They were for ambulances and other similar heavy duty configurations. I would think an alternator should make power when disconnected from the batteries, I have jump started quite a few and removed the battery while it was running. That used to be a quick way to see if the alternator was "putting out". I haven't done that in a long time however, and it may not be true on late model vehicles. If I remember correctly, a 6.0 with a single alternator has an internal regulator and I believe it should be putting out, while on a dual alternator set up the PCM controls at least one alternator (and maybe both). If you are seeing 0v when it's disconnected, a parts store test bench will pronounce it dead real quick as it's not a intermittent issue. Also the fact that battery voltage doesn't rise after glow plugs go off isn't right but battery light should be on. Thats odd as the battery light seems to work pretty well on these trucks.
The batteries are wired parallel (+ to + and -to -) so if all the connections are good it acts like one large 12v battery. Any charger should bring up both batteries together but the amp rating on the charger is for one battery so if charging rate is 5amps, each battery will only see half that.




Ok, iI did read somewhere on here that an alternator would not produce power if not hooked to the battery cable but i think that thread was on an alternator without a internal regulator so i was'nt sure what i should see.

thanx for your responce
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  #4  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Rusty
The batteries are wired parallel (+ to + and -to -) so if all the connections are good it acts like one large 12v battery. Any charger should bring up both batteries together but the amp rating on the charger is for one battery so if charging rate is 5amps, each battery will only see half that.[/QUOTE]



So does that just mean that it woul take longer to charge them together? If so then can you leave them hooked to the truck and charge them for a longer session? Or with a larger charger? Or use two chargers
While hooked up? I just want to learn these things for future understanding of this to help make good descisions. Thanks
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:33 AM
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so for others searching, or the threads that ive read about, I'm assuming that when your battery's show a good 12.7 alone, then when truck is started shows 13.7, the alt. is putting out 13.7v not 1v, so the ones I read that say there alternator is putting out 12.7 then they may not know that they could be reading the batt volts and their alt could be less or zero.

I found many answers by searching and reading but could not find all of this in one spot. Would be nice when you experts on here have some time to clarify all this and other stuff I found, on one thread. maybe one for single alt. and one for dual. And then any differences there may be between years??I Don't know. either way, you guys have helped me in the past and I watch you help others often. This is a Great forum and am glad to be on it.
Thank you
Scott


Scott Allred

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  #6  
Old 08-18-2012, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slankky View Post
Well Thanks BLADE i figured you would be one to chime in I will give that a try and let you know. How is that DC Power ALT. treating you? I started another thread ...Mine went out. Thanks again

LOVE the DC Power Alternator

It stays right on top of the batterys I tried to hook a charger up other day and it just kept shuting off since they were fulley charged

clean all Battery Cables an make shure to follow grounds off batterys to where they mount
bad ground can cause alt to burn up
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
LOVE the DC Power Alternator

It stays right on top of the batterys I tried to hook a charger up other day and it just kept shuting off since they were fulley charged

clean all Battery Cables an make shure to follow grounds off batterys to where they mount
bad ground can cause alt to burn up

Yup I'll make sure. Thanks
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:26 AM
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Sorry Slankky, looks like I went to bed before answering your question completely (been a rough week for me lol). In basic electricity classes they often use water as an analogy to electricity. It works pretty well when thinking about a charging system to consider a small town with a water tower (battery), water pump (alternator), pipes (wires), and houses (all the electrical loads on your truck).
There are three basic measurements to make also. The first is how much pressure in psi you have at different points in the system (volts). How much resistance you have to flow caused by valves that are only partially open, smaller sections of pipe etc (ohms) and How much volume you can flow in gallons per hour in different parts of the system (amps).
So to get back to your questions. The battery arrangement is like two water towers of the same size standing side by side simply connected together at the output with a large pipe. No valves, regulators, or anything. Just T'd together. Using a charger is like bringing in an emergency pump. It will fill both tanks at the same time but the bigger the pump (charging rate in amps) the quicker it fills.
One place this water analogy breaks down is your question about using two chargers, if you want to use a separate charger for each battery you should disconnect one of the cables at the battery ( doesn't matter which one, just break the circuit). If everything is connected at the same time the regulators in the chargers will "see" each other and measure the batteries voltage as being higher than it really is causing it to shut off, the other one will then read reduced volts and kick up. I've never done that before but I would expect the chargers to bounce on and off very fast and possibly even damage the charger(s) if you leave it connected very long.
You are correct about voltage output at the alternator. If your water tanks have 50psi you will need 51psi (more pressure anyway) to move any water into the tank. and the higher the GPM of the pump (amps) the faster it can fill the tank.
Hope this helps some.
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:25 PM
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Sorry to hijack this but this morning I go to start my Ex and the battery light comes on, then the ABS light comes on. I checked the voltage on my Scangauge and its putting out 16-17 volts. I have a rather new 250A DC Power Alternator. : I'm hoping its a loose ground wire. Batteries are a week old.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chetspencer View Post
Sorry to hijack this but this morning I go to start my Ex and the battery light comes on, then the ABS light comes on. I checked the voltage on my Scangauge and its putting out 16-17 volts. I have a rather new 250A DC Power Alternator. : I'm hoping its a loose ground wire. Batteries are a week old.

Thats where I would start too checking and cleaning Grounds

Might even have a Bad Ground Cable somewhere too do you have a DVM to check it out


IIRC they are Regulated DC Power alts and IDK if it should put that much voltage out even with a Bad Ground IIRC it should stop the Volatage output at 15.7volt IIRC it was on DC Power website

this would be the First DC Alt Iv seen Fail Ever if it is indeed Bad IDK

I had a Bad Alternator other day and it was at 17-18volts output just a Oreilys alt on a car but it was BAD
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
Thats where I would start too checking and cleaning Grounds

Might even have a Bad Ground Cable somewhere too do you have a DVM to check it out


IIRC they are Regulated DC Power alts and IDK if it should put that much voltage out even with a Bad Ground IIRC it should stop the Volatage output at 15.7volt IIRC it was on DC Power website

this would be the First DC Alt Iv seen Fail Ever if it is indeed Bad IDK

I had a Bad Alternator other day and it was at 17-18volts output just a Oreilys alt on a car but it was BAD
Thanks for the input, I did a quick visual on the main battery / ground cables and everything seems tight. When I start the truck everything on the scangauge is good, except the battery light is on. Then after 15 seconds or so the voltage jumps from 12 or so up to 16-17. Will go look further into ground connections.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:40 PM
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So if Im reading this right looks like max volts should be 15.37volts range

Im thinking the alternator voltage regulator is Bad

probably going to be the first bad Alternator from DC Iv seen and Iv seen alot of folks install them






Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
So if Im reading this right looks like max volts should be 15.37volts range

Im thinking the alternator voltage regulator is Bad

probably going to be the first bad Alternator from DC Iv seen and Iv seen alot of folks install them






Click the image to open in full size.
Thank you for puting up that link. I just did a check for voltage drop aross every cable I can think of and every one check oout perfect. I get like .002v drop at the most from passenger battery neg to Alt housing. I just added a lock washer to the output post on the alternator thinking it might have been a possible poor connection there. This time when I restarted the truck the battery light flickered on and off rapidly for about 15-20 seconds then came on solid volts jumped up to 17 and I shut it off. ABS light is on all the time but I'm not worried about that at the moment.

Unless someone can suggest other wise, I'm going to get a cheap autozone alternator to verify I have a bad DC power Alternator.

This really sucks, as I'm at my wife's limit with this truck.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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Just found my receipt for my DC Power Alternator, it only 6 months old.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:07 PM
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Just take the DC Power alternator into Auto Parts store and Have a Bench Test Done

Unless you MUST HAVE Truck running at this point in time I wouldnt buy a Cheap alt

I do Feel pretty confident this DC Power Alternator has Gone Bad the voltage regulator has Gone Bad


the ABS Light is normal for it to come on During a Low Power Condition (I know the Voltage the DC Power alt is High But its probably putting out LOW Amps)

I dont think you have a ABS Issue it will go away with a Good Alternator DONT Stress the ABS Light
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