Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Older, Classic & Antique Trucks > 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:47 PM
oldmanrvr5's Avatar
oldmanrvr5 oldmanrvr5 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
oldmanrvr5 is starting off with a positive reputation.
1971 carmaro subframe installed on 1956 Ford PU

Hi guys,

Starting a camaro subframe installation on my 1956 ford f100 truck. I have the old steering off now and have stripped the 1971 camaro subframe down to the base frame. I plan to rebuild the entire subframe and sand blast and repaint the frame. I have seen one video on youtube and got some information on a 1978 camaro install sequence. Does anyone have the frame cutting dimensions if I plan on a 350 chevy automatic transmission with a camaro rear end positive traction. Looking for a 1971 camaro subframe install instuctions. Thanks for your help, Tim.

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:51 PM
GreatNorthWoods's Avatar
GreatNorthWoods GreatNorthWoods is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Littleton, New Hampshire
Posts: 8,046
GreatNorthWoods has a very good reputation on FTE.GreatNorthWoods has a very good reputation on FTE.GreatNorthWoods has a very good reputation on FTE.GreatNorthWoods has a very good reputation on FTE.
Here's some information I have that might help. This particular installation was for a 1955 but I would imagine a 56 would be very similar. There were some pictures that went with this but I guess they were lost somewhere. The "Briggs" referred to here is the guy doing the work...


1. Place a long piece of angle iron 2 3/8 inches behind the centerline of the hole in the forward body-mounting bracket. Make sure the iron is at the same position on both sides of the frame. This will provide a good reference point and will retain the stock width between the framerails after you remove the front-end. Place a good tack-weld on both framerails to ensure that everything stays put when you do the cutting.

2. Locate the centerline of the truck's straight-axle by measuring 28 3/8 inches forward of the reference brace. On '53-'56 Ford F-100 models the axle center is 27 inches forward of the center of the body mounting holes.

3. Secure the frame in the jig and check for the proper ride height. For a good slammed stance, set the lower edge of the framerail at the centerline of the stock axle at 11 inches off the ground or, in this case, at the bottom of the frame jig. Next measure the ride height farther back on the rails at the horizontal area just before the frame starts its rise over the rear axle. There should be 12 to 12 ½ inches between the underside of the frame and the ground. The measurement at the back of the frame should be 16 to 16 ½ inches from the underside of the frame to the ground.

4. In the front of the car, the underside of the front crossmember/core support should be about 9 inches from the ground. Jackstands can be used. Briggs worked on a bare frame taking measurements to the bottom of the frame jig.

5. Hold the tape measure on the cross-brace /reference point and measure forward to the middle rivet that holds the crossmember to the framerail. Record this measurement to use as a reference when you reattach the front portion of the frame later. Measurements of this area and the lower center of the crossmemeber are very critical and must be accurate.

6. Measure 14 inches back from the predetermined centerline of the axle. Use a square to mark the rails across, down and on the underside. This is where the first cut will be made on the truck rails.

7. Briggs used a plasma cutter here. But cutting torch or a sawzall will work. Try to hold as close to the line as possible to keep the cleanup grinding to a minimum.

8. You marked off the section of the frame to be removed for the swap in Step 6. You can cut it at this time.

9. Cut both framerails and set the front section aside (this front portion will be needed later). Grind the cuts smooth and clean the area near the cuts to leave a good surface for welding.

10. Checking the two frame sections at the mating area indicates that the Camaro frame measures 37 inches across from the outside of the rails. The early F-100 frame measure 34 inches across from the outside of the rails and must be figured in when you set up the two later.

11. Set the '78 Camaro clip on the jackstands and level up the flat area at the rear where it was bolted to the floor of the Camaro. To locate the centerline of the Camaro axle place a level on the flat area of the side rail and measure to the center of the ball join on the lower A-arm.

12. Use the measurement from Step 11 to the top of the frame. That works out to be ¾ inch forward of the mounting hole for the shock absorbers. This becomes the guide mark for the swap.

13. The first cut on the Camaro clip will be 14 inches back from the centerline of the axle. That's just behind the rear mounting bracket of the lower A-arm. Be sure to stay clear of the bracket or adjust the measurement to clear it. Use a level to mark the vertical lines to ensure that every cut matches up.

14. Use a plasma cutter or a cutting torch to cut the frame. It helps to turn the unit over so a clean, straight cut can be performed. This cut will be a butt joint with the truck rails, so it is important to make a clean, straight cut.

15. Set the Camaro slip into place with the top of both frame sections matching up. To ensure a proper setup use a degree finder on the bracket of the upper A-arm. Set the section to a reading of 10 degrees at the rear sloping angle.

16. Check the centerline of the axle and make sure that it measures 28 3/8 inches from the crossbrace. That is the same measurement that you took on the centerline of the truck axle. Hold to this measurement.

17. Double-check everything and tack-weld the two sections together at the top, the bottom and a couple of spots on the sides.

18. The front portion of the Camaro clip must be cut off to allow for the reattachment of the forward section of the truck. The Camaro frame should be cut off 1 inch in front of the upper mounting hole of the steering box.

19. Cut off the front section of the Camaro framerails and set the front portion of the truck frame into place. It is important that both bottom surfaces are aligned. The front section should measure 50 inches to the middle rivet holding the crossmember. The center of the crossmemeber must be set at the same measurement as its stock configuration.

20. Set the steering box into its mounting location to make sure there is clearance with the crossmember before you weld this section into place.

21. The Camaro framerails are quite a bit wider than the truck rails. Trim off the outside section so you can fabricate boxing places for the better alignment of the two sections.

22. First make cardboard patterns to determine the proper shape for the plates. After you bend up the plates, tack-weld them into place. Briggs cut his plates from 3/16-inch steel sheet.

23. The width at the back of the Camaro Framerail has to be narrowed about 1 ½ inches. Make an angular cut starting about 3 inches forward of the joint. Then remove a pie-shaped cut from the lower side rail of the truck frame to mate the frame with the lower edge of the Camaro unit.

24. Again make boxing-plate templates from cardboard to ensure you have the proper shapes before cutting plates out of the 3/16-inch steel sheet.

25. At this point everything should look good, but it's still only tacked together. Check all of the measurements again to be absolutely sure that all areas are correct.

26. For a true check of the ground height at the spindle, set the upper A-arm and the spindle and raise the lower A-arm with a pipe on the floor jack so the lower A-arm is parallel with the ground The axle should be right at 12 inches.

27. After you've welded everything up and ground it smooth you can reinstall the painted suspension parts. First work the lower A-arm into the mounting brackets.

28. Next install the upper A-arms, the sway bar and the spindles. All that remains now is installing the brakes, the springs and the shocks, and the swap will be complete. When installing the coil springs use a good spring compressor and work carefully as this is a very critical part of the job. The installation can be dangerous if not done properly.

Hope this is of some help!
__________________
Vern

1949 F-1
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:59 PM
CharlieLed's Avatar
CharlieLed CharlieLed is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 3,329
CharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to all
I have a video on DVD from No Limit that shows this install on a 55-59 GM truck. Fairly crude video but I am a more visual person...never have been able to follow step-by-step instructions.
This subframe swap is kinda ol school now though...too many other options that are better handling and easier to install. You know that you are behind the power curve when the Camaro guys are pulling these subframes off their cars in favor of an aftermarket replacement system.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 04:34 PM
oldmanrvr5's Avatar
oldmanrvr5 oldmanrvr5 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
oldmanrvr5 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks Vern this will help out. I do like the order used to do the install. Tim
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:38 PM
AXracer's Avatar
AXracer AXracer is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 13,989
AXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to behold
Chuck Frank
I have to agree with Charlie, this swap is a lot of work for very little gain. For the benefit of anyone else contemplating this swap, you're installing 42 year old technology on a 56 year old vehicle, you could have picked a much better option, or just updated the OEM 56 suspension for a very similar gain and a whole lot less work.
__________________
Passionate about autocross racing!

1956 F100 Panel "GRACIE"
2007 Solstice GXP racer, the "KRAZED KANARY"
Third place finish 2009 SCCA National Championships
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:09 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1 ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque area
Posts: 16,588
ALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud of
I think the benefit is that you get a set of OEM-engineered systems (steering, suspension, brakes), with parts that are easy to source when replacements are needed. All the critical fabrication comes with the subframe; crossmember especially. The typical Saginaw variable ratio steering is an excellent unit and lasts a lot longer than R&P's. If you're going to put in a SBC, there is no question that it will bolt right in.
__________________
Ross
1952 F-1 Flat V8 3-on-the-tree
MSD, Rochester 2G, Red's Headers
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 11:44 PM
52 Merc's Avatar
52 Merc 52 Merc is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 5,451
52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all
Adding a GM clip is also adding about 500 pounds to your forward weight bias, not to mention the loss of all of your critical body alignment points on the frame. It would be my last resort. Way too many better options out there, imho.
__________________

Wayne
52 Mercury M-1
among other things.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 11:59 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1 ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque area
Posts: 16,588
ALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud ofALBUQ F-1 has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52 Merc View Post
Adding a GM clip is also adding about 500 pounds to your forward weight bias, not to mention the loss of all of your critical body alignment points on the frame. It would be my last resort. Way too many better options out there, imho.
It replaces the entire front frame and suspension of the truck, forward of the firewall. Comparing the stock beam axle, springs, and frame to the Camaro, I'd bet there isn't a big difference.

But you're dead on about the body mounting points.
__________________
Ross
1952 F-1 Flat V8 3-on-the-tree
MSD, Rochester 2G, Red's Headers
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:02 AM
52 Merc's Avatar
52 Merc 52 Merc is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 5,451
52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all52 Merc is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
It replaces the entire front frame and suspension of the truck, forward of the firewall. Comparing the stock beam axle, springs, and frame to the Camaro, I'd bet there isn't a big difference.

But you're dead on about the body mounting points.
I'm fully aware of how it's done. And personally, I've never seen one that I felt was installed worth a damn or safe. I've also worked on enough Camaros and Firebirds to know the behemothness of those frame stubs. I would never consider using one in a truck I built. But again, that's just my 2c.
__________________

Wayne
52 Mercury M-1
among other things.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:38 PM
AXracer's Avatar
AXracer AXracer is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 13,989
AXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to behold
Chuck Frank
I have to agree with Wayne, the Camaro subframe is an extremely heavy unit. The Ford OEM front suspension/frame is petite in comparison, that's why the A body racing guys are pulling them out and replacing them with much lighter MII style clips (My brother is replacing the clip in his drag racing Olds Omega this winter for this reason). It takes a skilled fabricator to do the graft safely and with any elegance since the Camaro is so much wider than the F100 frame, and has to be reduced back again for the front portion of the Ford frame to be reinstalled. All that welding and gusseting is a twisted chassis going to happen unless you have a frame table to work on/off of. Not something I'd attempt in a home garage on jack stands! It's difficult enough trying to get the front sheetmetal to align with a stock frame, a near impossibility with even a small misalignment on a double grafted frame.
If you are wearing out a R&P steering, you are doing a LOT of hard road racing! Most of the aftermarket MII IFS are now using the beefier T-bird R&P. The 71 Camaro is rear steer, much less desirable than the 73-79 front steer for steering box/engine interference.
Engine install is a moot point if using a CSB, they are a near bolt in in anything larger than a lawn tractor, you don't need a GM clip to install one.
IMHO This IFS swap needs to be put out to pasture along with the Volare, Cordoba and junkyard MII, there are far, far better choices available.
__________________
Passionate about autocross racing!

1956 F100 Panel "GRACIE"
2007 Solstice GXP racer, the "KRAZED KANARY"
Third place finish 2009 SCCA National Championships
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 04:33 PM
leadarms leadarms is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
leadarms is starting off with a positive reputation.
I need help... I have a 56 ford f100. I want to sawp the original inline 6 and trany. I bought a 87 grand marquis. can i swap the whole body of the truck over to the marqui chassis?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 05:26 PM
CharlieLed's Avatar
CharlieLed CharlieLed is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 3,329
CharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to allCharlieLed is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadarms View Post
I need help... I have a 56 ford f100. I want to sawp the original inline 6 and trany. I bought a 87 grand marquis. can i swap the whole body of the truck over to the marqui chassis?
Not the time or thread to bring up this topic...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 05:36 PM
leadarms leadarms is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
leadarms is starting off with a positive reputation.
you are corrrect - im new to the site... i though i posted.. i'll keep trying
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 06:08 PM
AXracer's Avatar
AXracer AXracer is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Durham NC
Posts: 13,989
AXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to beholdAXracer is a splendid one to behold
Chuck Frank
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadarms View Post
you are corrrect - im new to the site... i though i posted.. i'll keep trying
I'll start a new topic for you to show you how to do it. It will be titled "post for a newbe with chassis swap question"

NOTE: see you already managed on your own, so I deleted my topic.
__________________
Passionate about autocross racing!

1956 F100 Panel "GRACIE"
2007 Solstice GXP racer, the "KRAZED KANARY"
Third place finish 2009 SCCA National Championships
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 07:22 AM
BigBlockMan's Avatar
BigBlockMan BigBlockMan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: N,Ga
Posts: 225
BigBlockMan is starting off with a positive reputation.
I wouldn't do it. But there's no way I'd add a GM part to my Ford. What about the CV cross member swap? That "may" be easier and safer.
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:22 AM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Older, Classic & Antique Trucks > 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
300 to 390 swap louis_fan 1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 31 12-09-2012 07:58 AM
A belated hello from a new member in Australia, with pictures Aus56 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 24 09-12-2012 09:48 AM
E-350 power mirrors project tiopet 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 5 09-04-2012 03:39 AM
Testing my ability to post photos Finger__Rachet Testing..... 7 08-31-2012 12:23 PM
1971 carmaro subframe installed on 1956 Ford PU oldmanrvr5 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1 07-29-2012 02:41 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup