Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel SPONSORED BY:

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:07 PM
Shattered's Avatar
Shattered Shattered is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 104
Shattered is starting off with a positive reputation.
propane vs. NG

I'm already set up and plumbed for propane. Here's the question, rather than run propane due to cost, could you push natural gas through this system? and if not why?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:18 PM
miller_feed's Avatar
miller_feed miller_feed is offline
Hook it, I'll pull it.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Grand Lake, La.
Posts: 15,009
miller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputationmiller_feed has a superb reputation
Subscribing to see what people think about this.
__________________
RICK, PAA MEMBER #4
2001, F-350, DRW. CC. LWB, 4X4, LARIAT,
MODS: 6637 W/Pete's cover, BTS-TRANS, DP-TUNER LIVE, MBRP 4" SS, Isspro 3 gauge kit, TN-BB turbo, Bellowed up pipes, HPX, TRU-COOL cooler, SS Stage II injectors, and the Chris-fifty.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:20 PM
BigAlsPSD's Avatar
BigAlsPSD BigAlsPSD is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pea Ridge, AR
Posts: 5,372
BigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud of
Aren't the bottles for CNG, a lot more expensive? Last I saw a setup was around $7k
__________________

Alan 2000 F-350 CC SRW 4WD, DIY FRx, DIY CCK, Tyrant Tuning, BTS Trans, SpringerPop's Disabler, 6637 Filter, OCR, DIY Hutch Mod, Van Turbo w/RR 6/6 billet wheel, Foil Delete, 50Cent Mod, 4" Turbo back, other stuff...297,000 Miles and counting.Towing 2005 32' Sandpiper 5'er 2007 CC SRW 4WD 6.0 mostly stock
Member Arkansas Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:25 PM
Shattered's Avatar
Shattered Shattered is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 104
Shattered is starting off with a positive reputation.
I don't know about bottles alone, I already have a regulator and everything for propane, curious to know why NG wouldn't work, it burns cooler than propane.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
landmobile's Avatar
landmobile landmobile is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Jenkintown, PA
Posts: 452
landmobile has a good reputation on FTE.landmobile has a good reputation on FTE.landmobile has a good reputation on FTE.
Propane (C3H8) is a heavier molecule than natural gas (mostly methane, CH4). It liquifies more easily and yields somewhat more energy, but otherwise has similar properties of combustion and by-products.

My guess is that an engine designed for propane would run on natural gas (although perhaps with less power) as long as the appropriate metering adjustments were made to keep the air/fuel ratio where it belongs.

Chris
__________________
Chris Bors
Land Mobile Corporation
99 F350 XLT 4X4 DRW, Knapheide 6132 P-50 Service Body
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:52 PM
BigAlsPSD's Avatar
BigAlsPSD BigAlsPSD is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pea Ridge, AR
Posts: 5,372
BigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud ofBigAlsPSD has much to be proud of
I don't know if Drwoodchopper is on here but here is a quote from his setup elsewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwoodchopper View Post
I have had a bunch of PM's about my CNG supplemental set up so I thought I would start a new thread about it. First off I did tons of reasearch and came up with a very limited amount of information. CNG supplements the diesel fuel, "streatching it" to make you go farther by supplying an extra, much cheaper fuel. We can't run straight CNG because we do not have a sparkplug...duh. CNG is much safer than propane because it is able to compress much more before ignighting so thus the diesel ignighting creates the fire to ignight the CNG. The gas is drawn under vaccum from the regulator pre-turbo so you are using little to no CNG at idle. The amount of CNG used increases with rpm and boost (ie: vaccum pre turbo). I have been running the system for a year now and have only run out of CNG once so I have been using it all of the time even grossing 18-20k towing. You do have to keep a closer eye on your EGT's but I have only had to reach down and shut it off 2 times that I can remember. I constantly get 800-1200 miles out of a fill up of diesel and 200-280 miles out of 10 galons of CNG. The downside is the tanks are big and because it is a gas they don't hold much, so I have to fill up often. Tuning seems to be a non issue except for trans tuning. The truck has 50-75 more hp with it so the trans does not "know" this. Newer trucks have "adaptive learning" for the trans and this seems to be a non issue. I had Johnathan at Beans tune the trans to behave as if it had more HP than my mods would produce and it has been shifting great ever since! The system is quite simple you have a tank, regulator/controler, coolant lines to kep it from freezing a power wire, a supply hose to the intake, an on/off switch and a control valve to adjust the max amount of CNG to be used. I get asked about it almost everytime I fill up as the CNG fuling station I use is right next to the diesel pumps. I just did a blackstone oil analysis at 7k and they said I should go 10k on next oil..it was that good! Belive me I was very nervous to try it and turn it on the first time but I absolutly LOVE it now!! The inital investment is quite large $3000 is what I spent on mine I looked into having it done and it was $7500-10k The tanks are what kill you, a new 12 gallon one like I have is $3600!!! Some of you might remember a duramax that smoked the fuel economy part of the diesel power challenge a couple of years ago. That is what peaked my intrest and I am running that same system.
__________________

Alan 2000 F-350 CC SRW 4WD, DIY FRx, DIY CCK, Tyrant Tuning, BTS Trans, SpringerPop's Disabler, 6637 Filter, OCR, DIY Hutch Mod, Van Turbo w/RR 6/6 billet wheel, Foil Delete, 50Cent Mod, 4" Turbo back, other stuff...297,000 Miles and counting.Towing 2005 32' Sandpiper 5'er 2007 CC SRW 4WD 6.0 mostly stock
Member Arkansas Chapter
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 02:04 PM
Shattered's Avatar
Shattered Shattered is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 104
Shattered is starting off with a positive reputation.
looks like all i need now is the tank, and send my chip to Jody at DP and I will be good for some extra fuel mileage. Off to write a rubber check for that tank.... LOL.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Bonanza35 Bonanza35 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norco,CA
Posts: 4,546
Bonanza35 has a very good reputation on FTE.Bonanza35 has a very good reputation on FTE.Bonanza35 has a very good reputation on FTE.
Keep us posted. The idea is old. Bullydog had these years ago when they first came out.

Chet
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:54 PM
Pocket's Avatar
Pocket Pocket is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 6,823
Pocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant future
Personally I am against introducing any fuel through the intake. You lose the ability to correctly control the start of combustion.
__________________
Curtis
2002 F-250 PSD
Gambling with 250/200's on PMR's
478hp/851tq on Haller's dyno - 7/28/12
Your connection to the Colorado diesel community.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2012, 10:45 PM
timinfla2 timinfla2 is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
timinfla2 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Subscribing
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 04:38 AM
2000ca250 2000ca250 is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ellensburg
Posts: 1,024
2000ca250 has a good reputation on FTE.2000ca250 has a good reputation on FTE.
somewhat interested in this...the price seems rather high, and not sure if I have a reliable place to fill up with CNG but wow...1200 miles to a tank of diesel? THAT is impressive!
__________________
2000 F250 Handshaker
Farmerized w/double D's
Terminator supporter x2
Self Tuned
494 HP Daily tune, 557 HP All out

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:39 PM
dn29626's Avatar
dn29626 dn29626 is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,364
dn29626 has a very good reputation on FTE.dn29626 has a very good reputation on FTE.dn29626 has a very good reputation on FTE.dn29626 has a very good reputation on FTE.
This reads like a variation on the HHO system. Introducing a second fuel in compressed gas form to increase mpg's.
__________________
David Norwood. 2001 F350 7.3 DI CC dually purchased new.
Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter.Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline wix (33007 or 33972) filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump & two 12v 36" heaters. July of 2013-265/75/16 E range BW Michelin.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:24 PM
JT250's Avatar
JT250 JT250 is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 1,712
JT250 has a good reputation on FTE.JT250 has a good reputation on FTE.JT250 has a good reputation on FTE.
Subscribing...that would literally double my mpgs
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2012, 07:01 AM
Pocket's Avatar
Pocket Pocket is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 6,823
Pocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant futurePocket has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by dn29626 View Post
This reads like a variation on the HHO system. Introducing a second fuel in compressed gas form to increase mpg's.
Nothing like HHO.

HHO is a snake oil scam, because the amount of "gas" created is so minuscule that it has zero effect.

Setups such as propane and CNG are actually introducing higher amounts of combustable fuel into the intake. The issue with both systems here is that when a fuel is introduced into the combustion chamber of a compression ignition engine via the air intake, rather than being precisely injected at a pre-determined time, you lose all ability to control start of combustion (SOC).

An earlier SOC event can increase horsepower and increase fuel economy (by reducing the amount of diesel needed during the injection event). However, the side effect of that is a rapid and often very high spike in cylinder pressures. It's this exact problem that is the cause of bent and/or broken rods, with windows in the blocks.

That's the inherent danger of propane and CNG. That's why propane kits, although widely popular years ago, were also quickly abandoned by the masses. CNG is just the same thing, under a different name and a slightly different fuel. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a fuel being introduced into the air intake, creating the same effect as propane.
__________________
Curtis
2002 F-250 PSD
Gambling with 250/200's on PMR's
478hp/851tq on Haller's dyno - 7/28/12
Your connection to the Colorado diesel community.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:57 AM
nlemerise's Avatar
nlemerise nlemerise is online now
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NV & Mexico
Posts: 3,996
nlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant futurenlemerise has a brilliant future
A couple of articles about CNG from HDT:

8/10/2012

8/6/2012
__________________
Neal

Support The Semper Fi Fund or America's Fund

Your kids are better off if you blow their college savings in Las Vegas. They'll be just as uneducated, but at least they won't be as indoctrinated. - Neal, retired professor
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 08:57 AM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup