Haha. yeah it's funny how after all that time pushing to not use DEF, now they are going to have to, and they call they're solution things like
"unique", and still complement themselves on in cylinder management of NOX.

It might be possible that they will need less DEF than other guys, who knows?

International wasn't the only ones that didn't want to run DEF urea treatment, CAT is running "advanced EGR" designed with navistar, cummins was also the same, don't know what they're doing now though.

Yes it did seem stupid in hindsight, in my mind, that 1900$ penalty per engine they had to pay, could have gone towards the urea system, and mileage would have been a little better.

 

So DEF increases mileage?

 

It's use allows the engine to run in a way that yields better mileage.

* legally. Illegally, you could just buy a programmer, block EGR, disable regens, hack out DPF.

 

The EGR cooler(not plural) and turbo(also not plural) were completely different on the EPA 2007 MaxxForce 7 from the Powerstroke. See below.

Certainly they keep updating it in an apparently futile attempt to meet emissions targets, but I'm having a tough time believing that it's a whole lot better. The 6.0L was updated several times along it's much maligned history and some of those made things worse.

 

So who is your source that says the V10 is "pretty out of place" in the F-650?

A gas engine has a place in a 650 sized chassis, most people just do not have enough experience in that market area to understand where the place is and why.

 

Actually, the F-650 cab is the exact same cab as the F-250-550, it just has the full tilt hood on it instead of the regular SD front clip.

In my opinion the International cab is far superior to the Super Duty cab. I'll probably sound like an International salesman here, but this is coming from someone who drives both a Super Duty and an International on a daily basis.

With the International's large windshield and the way you are positioned in the cab, you have MUCH better visibility of the road. Plus, the International has REAL truck mirrors, where the F-550 has the same mirrors as the pickups. Better visibility makes accidents less likely.

These pics don't really show the true difference in visibility, but they give a little idea. To get the real picture, you need to actually drive both trucks.

View of road from Super Duty cab:



View of road from International cab:





The interior of the International cab is simply HUGE compared to the Super Duty. It's taller and wider, plus it has a completely flat floor which makes even more space. It has more headroom even though it also has overhead storage bins, which the Super Duty does not have. The standard seating configuration is a single air ride seat for the driver, and a 2 seat bench for passengers. This will comfortably seat 3 people. You can squeeze 3 people in a Super Duty cab, but it's not very comfortable. There is also a large space under the bench that can be used for storage. I keep all kinds of stuff under there...moving blankets, rain suit, tow strap, emergency triangles, extra fluids, etc.

We used to have a Chevy Kodiak 6500 that I drove for a while. Just like the F-650, it just had a pickup cab on it. After driving that thing all day, I couldn't wait to get the hell out of it. However, with the International, I'm more comfortable driving it than I am when I'm driving my own Super Duty.

The full tilt hood is also much better for a truck that's going to be used daily as a work vehicle. Not only are things easier to access for service, but it makes things much easier when you go to do your daily vehicle inspection. You can easily check all fluids standing right next to the drivers side tire. The Super Duty requires you to climb up into the engine compartment to check fluids. Suspension and steering components are easily inspected with the hood open. On a Super Duty, you have to get on the ground crawl under the truck to inspect those things. Should you need to access anything at the rear of the engine, the International has a "doghouse" cover that you can remove and access the rear of the engine. Not the case on a Super Duty. IIRC, the Super Duty's entire cab may have to be lifted off the chassis to access many things.

 

I think it was truck trend. Something like that. They tested it and said it was a little under powered and their truck was empty. Granted, they had a giant dump body and a crew cab.

I would suspect the V10 F650s would be more limited to things like flat bed tow trucks, and maybe covered landscape trucks, you know the ones that the chippers spit stuff in.

 

The V-10 F-650 would be good for rental trucks since the purchase price is lower, the majority of people using it are likely not used to operating a diesel and probably don't like the noise or smell of a diesel, and they don't get that many miles put on them.

It would also be good for small companies that have deliveries to make to a handful of local customers, again because of the lower purchase price and because it wouldn't get a ton of miles put on it. Of course, many smaller companies can't justify the cost of purchasing, operating, maintaining, and insuring a truck like this, and paying someone to drive it. Many companies like this will simply use a local delivery company (like the one I work for) to deliver products to their customers.

 

Your correct. The cab just sits up a lot higher than the 450 and 550 that was what I was eluding to and failed. If you like the Intl cab that is fine, I'm just not a fan of the weird look and think the parts interchangeability with the 250-550 cabs can be an asset. Once the trucks start getting dated parts can start to dry up depending on the make.

I just read the Truck Trend article and couldn't find anything like that. It would not surprise me if a rag like Diesel Power said that though.

The truck they tested in the Truck Trend article is more of a state DOT type truck. You know the ones where the workers spend most of their time sitting in the truck with it running watching the traffic go by and the ONE guy working. The 10,600 lbs they had left for payload would not do much in the real world. If your hauling dirt and stone regularly the F-750 with the diesel would have been a better fit.

Like you mentioned for flat beds, landscape trucks, rental trucks, short haul box trucks, stake body trucks and etc the V10 is a good option to have. The gasser medium duty trucks used to be more popular prior to the 21st century. Most of them used some kind of odd displacement sub 400ci gas truck engine that you usually had issues finding parts for after several years. They were slow but the diesels were slow back then also. We are getting spoiled with the power in the trucks now. They used to move at half the speed of smell when empty.

They added thicker interior panels and components. A lot of auto companies are doing that. If it were me I would maximize the interior room not take away from it.

 

That's a nice one there. It has the nice cloth seats, power windows and locks, air ride rear suspension, and even an air horn. (if you look carefully on the steering wheel, the far left button says "AIR HORN")

 

That's pretty typical for a 26K GVWR truck. The International I drive is a 26K truck, and comes in at just about 16K empty (with 26' box and liftgate) so I'm left with 10K for payload. We also have some Kenworths and they are about 1,000 lbs lighter, mainly because the cabs on those are all fiberglass rather than steel.

 

Thats an old picture, I suspect when it first came out.

Fleet operators seem to be quite happy with them. DEF is on its way for these suckers too.

 

The terrastar cab is identical to other larger models, so it's not like it has a special cab that will be hard to find parts for.

 

My point was a dump body like that is better suited to an F-750 or heavy duty truck. That 10k lbs does not get you much rock or dirt.

Wait several years after the model is discontinued and your at the mercy of the OEM for parts. If you can find them you will pay if you can the parts. I realize that is not a consideration for the companies that get into new trucks every couple years though. All we had the last place i worked was older used trucks.

 

I don't realise what your trying to say, and I don't intend that as a mean comment, I'm just tires and slow this AM....