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Old 07-17-2012, 04:03 PM
aeroncapilot aeroncapilot is offline
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Converting 1979 F250 to a points type ignition

Call me crazy but I am converting my 300 six from the original breakerless ignition to the old points style distributor. I have studied the wiring diagrams as best I can and believe I have this worked out but there are two wires in particular that I would like some help to verify. There is a white and red wire grouped together into the OEM ignition module, I am thinking the red wire should go to the starter solenoid/relay (but which side??) and the white wire to the battery side of the coil. Could someone please advise? Thank you!!
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:23 PM
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The difference between the two is voltage. I want to say the white is the 12V, and the red is the 9V, which is the normal running voltage. This would be beneficial as well, to keep from frying out the points as fast. The white 12V is for initial fire up.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:33 PM
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Thanks for the input. So that sounds like maybe I have the two backwards, (in my head at least as I have not hooked up anything yet) because wouldn't the running voltage go to the coil?? Do you know if there are any suitable shortcuts to jumper the wires through the existing harness or would it be better to run new dedicated wires from the firewall where they used to run into the module?
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:36 PM
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I'm not totally certain, but it is possible that they both would need to. This wiring diagram should help you figure it out better.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:59 PM
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The super easy way to wire it up.

12V switched battery to one side of a ballast resister. Other side of ballast resister to positive side of coil. Distributor wire to negative side of coil.

A points distributor is as basic as it gets. (which is why I'm assuming you're going that route.)
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:27 PM
Ken(Ark) Ken(Ark) is offline
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Your hot wire circuit runs from your battery - switch - coil hot side - through the coil - coil neg - points - back to ground .

I say this because the tricky part on setting up a point style system is getting the system to 3.25 to 3.5 ohms resistance .

Most factory coils have around 2 ohms +/- resistance and a 1 ohm +/- in line resistor . EI systems usually have the 1 ohm built into the control box .

While the resistor is cold it has very little resistance and more voltage goes through the system which creates a hotter spark , great for starting but hard on the points .

As the resistor heats up it builds more resistance in the system and lowers the voltage which keeps the points at a suitable level .

Too much resistance and you have low spark , too little and you fry the points .

A lot of us old flathead Ford tractor guys work with 12v conversions and the problems encountered .

The best solution we have found is to get a 14v coil or "no resistor needed" coil which will have 3.25 to 3.5 ohms resistance built in , then NO OTHER resistors are needed .

You run full hot power to the coil , which is about $15 at your local parts store . Paying twice the price for blue streak points is money well spent , even for a tight wad like me .

Get a dwell meter and use it . Your feeler gauge may say .025 (or what ever your points should be at ) but the reading on the meter is your true setting . You can alligator clip on the meter and check it out in just a few seconds . Once your dwell is out of nominal range you will lose that smooth idle .

Your point contacts are coated with a highly conductive metal , filing them looks pretty but they will start to erode quickly after that . Use a dollar bill to polish the contacts if you feel the need .
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:15 AM
aeroncapilot aeroncapilot is offline
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Great info! The local parts guy has no clue what coil to give me, is there a particular vehicle that would have come standard on?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Ken(Ark) Ken(Ark) is offline
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IGNITION COIL Cross Reference Numbers - IG-110

This information is posted in the interest of local source and possibly saving some money. The spark coil required for the non-ballasted MG ignition system is a common type widely used around the world. These should be available at any local auto parts store, and lots of other kinds of motorized equipment dealers. This is an extensive list of coils that do not require a ballast resistor and can be installed with no modifications necessary to the wiring harness.

Beware that prices vary considerably. I bought a NAPA IC64 coil in April 2004, list price $62.50 discounted to $40.00. NAPAonline.com lists IC14SB for a meager $17.99 (April 2007). When I needed one for my lawn tractor I found a John Deere AT10399 on-line for $14.95, and it works just as well in an MG. Maximum voltage output could be anywhere from 17,000 volts nominal with a small spark plug gap up to 55,000 volts with a large plug gap and high output coil. There will be far more part numbers that are not listed here, as I have not listed all of the auto manufacturers (missing Ford and GM and MG for instance)

AC-Delco
U515

Alfa Romeo
510897

British Leyland
UKC3555

BMW
12131-357-296
12131-359-637

Borg-Warner
E30M
E37
E40

Bosch (German)
00 012 (blue)
00 015 (blue)
00 019
00 021 (black)
00 044

Caterpillar
4M1467
7B4496
631196

Chrysler (MOPAR)
200574
200611
200691
924053
1626875
1658432
1658433
1688210
1843324
2095338
MD001800
MD001804

Clark
887408
2503976

Crane FireBall
PS20 (black)
PS40 (chrome)

Delco-Remy
1115032
1115033
1115043
1115046
1115048
1115052
1115056
1115057
1115058
1115060
1115061
1115062
1115064
1115065
1115066
1115068
1115072

Fiat
1078
4061050
4071394
4158493
4384184
Honda
30500-634-015
30500-634-671

International
368893-R91
368402-R91
368402-R92
395331-R91
395331-R92
396547-R92
396547-R93
3063671-R91

J.C.Whitney
ZX075527P

John Deere
AT10399

Lucas
80 5002
80 5012
80 5015
45020A
45074
45075
45166
45214
CL 1
CL 2
CL 71
CL 101
CL 102
DLB 101
DLJ 102
DLJ 203

Moss Motors
543-020 (screw in)
143-200 (Lucas sport coil)

NAPA
IC14
IC14SB
IC64

Niehoff (Advance Auto Parts)
AL178
DR180
WA752

Nissan (Datsun)
22433-14800
22433-14805
22433-14806
22433-14811
22433-14815
22433-14816
22433-14900
22433-14905
22433-31300
22433-31303
22433-58000
22433-78500
22433-78510
22433-79011
22433-79012
22433-L1110
22433-L1610
22433-L1611
22433-L6800
22433-L6801

Pertronix Flame Thrower
40501 (chrome, oil)
40511 (black, oil)
40611 (black, epoxy)
Prestolite
5-10
200691
CAS-4012-1
CAS-4110-1

Saab
8528328
8804783

Sorensen
GC-521
SC-1A
SC-1X
SC-27X

Standard-Hygrade
UC-15
UC-15X
UC-500-12
UF-3

Subaru
82988-2800
82988-4110
82988-4112
82988-6102
98136-0005
98136-0007
98251-1535
98251-35080

Toyota
90919-02002
90919-02004
90919-02007
90919-02008
90919-02013
90919-02014
90919-02015
90919-02016
90919-02019
90919-02020
90919-02026
90919-02027
90919-02030
90919-02031
90919-02043
90919-02107

Triumph
GDC106
UKC3555

Victoria British
8-288 (sport coil)
8-627 (screw lead)
8-285 push lead)
10-420 (Bosh blue)
10-421 (Bosh red)
10-538 (Flame Thrower black)
10-539 (Flame Thrower chrome)

Volkswagen/Audi
021 905 115A
043 905 115A
043 905 115B
043 905 115C

Volvo
35254
3638411-3

Wells
LU800


This 12-volt non-balasted ignition coil is compatible with the following applications:

AMC- 3154627; 3161081; 3170249; 3173687.

CATERPILLAR NUMBERS: 49884, 62611, 353805, 631196

CLARK NUMBERS: 722593, 881097, 887408, 940104, 940140, 1728993, 1800958, 2503976

GM- 1115033; 1115043; 1115066; 1115091; 1115159, 60; D-501; D-504; D-513; U-501.Ford- DOPF 12029 A; DGC-10.

HYSTER NUMBERS: 72785, 119371, 199371, 231587, 248264, 314762, 326497, 328394, 1374918

KALMAR-AC NUMBERS: 74004755, 74061737, 74515665, 74516129, 74889580, 74920332, 74942392

KOMATSU NUMBERS: 22433-14816, 22433-L1110, TJ90919-02015

NISSAN NUMBERS: 22433-14800, 22433-14805, 22433-14806, 22433-14815, 22433-14816, 22433-L11110, 22433-L1610, 22433-L1611, 22433-L6800, 22433-L6801

Prestolite- 5-10; CAG-4001; CAF-4002; CAG-4002; CAG-4003; CAF-4004; CAF-4005; CM-4007; CAB-6001; CCM-6001; 200562; 200574.

TCM NUMBERS: 22192-42351, N-22433-14800, N-22433-14805, N-22433-14811, N-22433-14815, N-22433-14816, N-22433-79011, N-22433-79012, N-22433-L1110

TOYOTA NUMBERS: 80919-76023-71, 90919-02002, 90919-02004, 90919-02008, 90919-02014, 90919-02015, 90919-02016

VW/Bosch- 311 905 115, A; 0 221 102 056; 0 221 102 057; 0 221 114 006; 0 221 114 007; 0 221 114 008; 0 221 114 009; 0 221 102 003.

YALE NUMBERS: 059990600, 063194100, 118496300, 138794100, 220012305, 220050922, 220052059, 501283800, 512739801, 519584400, 900324300, 906189300

American LaFrance- 1948-1964
Autocar- 1944-1958
Alfa Romeo- 1956-1959
Aston Martin- 1951-1966
Allis Chalmers- 1957-1964
Austin- 1948-1971
Austin Healey- 1965-1970
Available- 1938-1952
Brockway-1944-1971
Case, J.I.- 1958-1968
Cockshutt- 1957-1961
Cricket-1971-1972
Dart- 1945-1959
Datsun- 1971-1973
Diamond T- 1946-1961
Divco- 1963-1965
Dodge Truck- 1956-1958
Fiat-1958-1968
Federal- 1947-1953
Flxible Bus-1944-1964
Ford- 1963-1969
Ford (English)- 1951-1969
FWD- 1948-1951 & 1957-1970
GMC- 1950-1955 & 1960-1961
Harvester Implement- 1958-1959
Hillman- 1940-1969
Humber- 1951-1972
IHC- 1938-1966
Jaguar- 1957-1971
John Deere- 1952-1966
Kenworth- 1949-1962
Mack- 1944-1971
Massey-Ferguson- 1955-1963
Mercedez-Benz- 1952-1965
MG- 1951-1972
Minneapolis-Moline- 1953-1965
Morgan- 1951-1969
Morris- 1949-1970
Motec- 1962
New Holland- 1959-1972
Oliver-1950-1964
Oshkosh- 1948-1970
Peugeot- 1957-1970
Plymouth- 1956-1959
Porsche- 1965-1970
Rambler- 1959-1966
Renault- 1959-1968
Reo- 1944-1966
Simca- 1955-1970
Studebaker- 1959
Studebaker Truck- 1955-1960
Sunbeam- 1969-1970 & 1972-1973
Toyota- 1974
Triumph- 1950-1972
Volkswagen- 1963-1974
Volvo- 1946-1956 & 1965-1971
White- 1944-1959
Wisconsin Engine- 1959-1972
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:16 AM
Ken(Ark) Ken(Ark) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroncapilot View Post
Great info! The local parts guy has no clue what coil to give me, is there a particular vehicle that would have come standard on?
I should add the info was a cut and paste from someone elses hard work .

Also you should find another parts store .
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:27 AM
aeroncapilot aeroncapilot is offline
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Thank you sir!
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:49 AM
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Not a DSIII expert, but all the wiring you need should be in place, Simply unplug module and remove green wire from neg side of coil and replace with the one from your points distributor. Proper coil and resistive wire is already in place. All that red and white wire does is feed module with full battery voltage to white in start and full battery voltage in run position.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:07 PM
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That is exactly what I was hoping for, I will try tonight and let you know!
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:33 PM
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I don't have a diagram marked DSIII. My DSII diagram lists from 76-82. This is the basis for my opinion. I really don't know what was changed in the DSIII, but should work. The built in resistive wire was dropped from 1.4 ohms in the DSI to 1.1 ohms in the DSII.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:57 PM
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What did John Deere use that coil on from '52 to '60? The old Johnny Poppers are 6 volt (unless it is an electric start diesel which were 24 volt) and use magnetos with built in coils.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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Uhm one basic question first nobody has asked, so far it looks like your keeping the ignition module, are you? If so why?

I can only assume your going to points to make things easier to fix and so there are less parts to fail. Well towards the top of the lists of ignition parts that fail on a Ford is the ignition module. You don't need it with a points ingition, so dump it.

Without the module the wiring is super simple, you don't need ANY of the wires that now used to connect to the ignition module. It becomes 4 simple wires; ignition on wire to balast, starter solenoid to coil+, ballast to coil+ and coil- to points, 4 wires that's it. Or really as little as 2 wires if you take the ballast out, you don't really need it to make it run, just to make the points last.

So if you want to keep much of the factory wiring it's real easy, there is already wiring from the ignition switch with a resistance wire and from the starter solenoid on the coil. Just remove the ignition module and connect the points to the - side of the coil.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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