Hey guys, a couple of quick easy questions for ya. Tried searching but couldn't really find what i was looking for. First off, i just traded another vehicle for a 97 mountaineer, 5.0 v8 AWD with about 171k miles on it. Runs and drives real nice, but on occasion under normal acceleration i get a slight shudder when it shifts into high gear. The tranny fluid does look and smell a bit old, but not burnt. I plan on changing it if you think it would fix the problem and not cause more.

Also, i think the ball joints are shot. The camber is in on the front tires and i get some pretty good clunks when i go over bumps in the road. Steering wheel is tight. I jacked it up and tried wiggling the tires but i couldn't get them to move like that. I'm assuming ball joints still though right? And if so, how hard of a job is that for a DIY'er?

Also i noticed a bit of a whine coming from under the truck when turning into my driveway. Transfer case i'm assuming? What could cause a slight whine and how do i fix it? I plan on changing the fluid in that too.

 

Welcome to the forum!

For the transmission concern the first thing I'd suggest trying is to have the transmission fluid and filter changed with the correct fluid. I would NOT suggest flushing the system. Changing the fluid and filter should not cause any more issues, and if it does, there's another problem anyway that you really should fix before the truck leaves you stranded.

As for the clunk over bumps, since the front suspension feels tight, first make sure you don't have something under one of the seats bouncing around or under the rear where the tire changing tools are. Then inspect your anti-sway bar end links. If the end links are solid, the noise is probably due to the anti-sway bar bushings. The good news is they are very inexpensive and easy to replace.

Obviously sounds are very difficult to diagnose through text. Your "whine" may be my "rumble". But, based on what I consider a whine, and one that would be associated with turning, I'd suspect you have either a low level of power steering fluid, air in the power steering system, or possibly a bad serpentine belt or belt tensioner.

-Rod

 

Thanks. I've actually been signed up on here for a little while, just never really sign on here much.

Hopefully nothing is bad with the trans as i got the thing to most likely sell. Lets just say what i traded for it was not worth much.

Nothing is bouncing around inside the truck, i know that. Its definitely coming from the front end. I'll give everything a good look over today.

I know the noise is not related to the power steering or the belt. It doesn't do it while the steering wheel is moving, it does it after the wheel is already turned and the truck itself is moving in a tight turn. And it sounds like it is coming from underneath. Thats why i was thinkin trans, tcase, or possibly a differential.

 

Once again the search isn't turning up what i need. Which line coming off the trans is the cooler return line and which is the line going out to the cooler? Also is there any kind of thermostat on the trans in this truck that will keep me from being able to flush it cold? I found in my search that some of the newer ones have an internal thermostat. Does my 97 have that or does it just pump fluid to the cooler all the time?

 

Also, what fluid should it take? Merc or merc v? I know ford says merc v is ok in transmissions that originally used merc, but i refuse to do that. What fluid did it originally take?

 

So not a single person here can help me?

I did manage to find the owners manual, and it should take regular Mercon, not Mercon V.

 

I believe Shorod provided more than enough direction for you to proceed with any remedial work and diagnostics..

If you are waiting for a definitive guess, this is the wrong forum.

Our Crystal ***** no longer provide that relief/venue... Philip

 

My question about the whine coming from under it when turning was answered, but with things that i know it is not, which is fine, i appreciate the help, but i know none of those are it so now we would move on to the next step and mention other possibilities. I was curious if anyone has ever noticed anything like that, and if so, what was it. Differential? Transfer case?

Also none of the questions above were answered. No crystal ball needed to answer anything i've asked.

 

Regarding the transmission cooler lines, per the factory service manual for the 1997 Explorer with the 4R70W transmission, "the cooler return line (bottom fitting) from the fitting on the transmission case" is the line you are looking for. The cooler supply line would be the one connected to the other end of the cooler. I don't find a quick reference in the section. However, you might notice that I suggested you NOT flush the transmission based on other discussions on this forum and others. I suggest you consider that before flushing.

Are there any other possible sources of the noises that you KNOW are not the issue so we don't waste a bunch of your time listing suggestions you've already ruled out? Since you mentioned it only makes the whine noise in a tight turn, I don't imagine you are going very quickly at the time. Therefore I don't suspect a differential or transfer case would make a "whine" noise. Maybe a clicking or popping noise, but not a whine. Are you familiar with the noise a bad wheel bearing will make? Is it noticeably different from that?

-Rod

 

Why wouldn't i want to flush it out though? Replacing 4 out of 14ish quarts doesn't seem like the right thing to do when all the fluid currently in it is brownish. You don't drain 2 out of 5 quarts out of your engine when doing an oil change. I'm not going to use a machine to do it, id just use the transmission itself to do it, just unhook the return and dump it into a bucket and keep refilling it.

With the noise, no im not going very fast. I notice it when pulling in my driveway or a parking spot. Doesn't really seem like a wheel bearing noise. I don't really notice any noise going straight, only when i turn.

 

Well, if you're not power flushing the transmission you may be fine. From what I remember reading, the concern with flushing is primarily that the process is likely to loosen debris and start circulating it, possibly relocating it to places where it may do harm (such as plugging passages). I think there was also a concern of actually getting too clean of fluid in the system which may prevent some of the clutches from grabbing well. The general consensus has been if you do not know the history of the transmission and/or do not know if it's been flushed regularly, you're likely better off just changing the fluid and filter regularly. But don't take my word (and recall) for it, search the forum to see what issues others have experienced and if those issues were following a power flush or even just a fluid transfer flush. Most folks are much better about performing regular oil changes than they are about properly maintaining their transmissions, differentials, brake system, or power steering.

It is possible for a wheel bearing to not be obvious in a straight line but cause a rumble or whine when side loaded. Any chance the sound is something you'd be able to capture on video and post?

-Rod

 

Yeah i've heard plenty of bad stories of power flushing. I would never do that. True on the maintenance part. I guess i forgot not every one likes to maintain stuff properly like i do. I might just change half the fluid or something just to kinda split the difference.

I can try to get a video/sound clip but its so faint that i'm not sure it will be heard on camera. It sounds to me like maybe the tcase. There is a very, and i mean very, faint whine when accelerating, and the pitch keeps rising based on speed, so it is something related to wheel speed. It sounds to me like it is coming from the tcase area. Then when i turn sharp that same exact whine just gets more noticeable. I'll drain the fluid out of the tcase too and see how that looks. Im gonna guess ugly. 172k miles and its probably never been changed.

 

looks like you beat me there, so good for you.

I was going to suggest changing the fluid in the t-case while you are doing the trans. the service intervals for both are the same, and both get neglected badly.

as to your fluid comment. i know the truck calls for regular Merc. but you would be far better off using Merc V. Ford's long term fix to the shutter problems assoicated with the 4r70w was the Merc V. fluid. my 2000 with the same drivetrain as yours calls for Merc V.

::edit:: Also, changing only half the fluid is fixing only half the problem. There should be a torque converter drain plug which would allow you to get 95% of the fluid without messing with removing cooler lines. I have done this as well, and it works pretty well.

i think the biggest problem with the power flushes is that many of them will use a solvent to help clean the gunk out of the trans. when badly neglected, there is too much gunk and it ends up clogging passeges as mentioned above. IMO, you can only do good if you simply change the fluid and filter. keep service intervals regular after that point, and everything should be hunky-dory.

All of that being said, there are some additives you can put in with the trans fluid which will "upgrade" the fluid to Merc V. specs. A trans shop may be able to get it for you. (course, they may just give you a funny look as well, who knows). I do know they are out there, though, because the previous owner had the trans serviced at 77k with merc plus the additive (on the recipt).

Without the Merc V or the additive, plan on doing the trans ever 30k miles to keep the shutter at bay. The best solution, and what i have done with all of my 4r70w's, is to put in full synthetic. Mobil 1 or Castrol (and valvoline last time i checked) meet or exceed Merc/Merc V specs and will provide 60k of trouble free miles. My explorer has full synthetic in the transfer case as well.

so far, i've put on 50k very hard miles without a hitch.

good luck!

 

cob -

Allow me to add my two cents on the bumps and clunks. I, too, experienced bumps and clunks whenever I went over bumps in the road. My ball joints were old, but solid, and every mechanic I spoke to said as long as they're solid, they shouldn't need replacing. One tech even diagnosed my clunks to the steering shaft guide sleeve (he was getting closer). Ater about 5-6 years (!), the clunking sounded like something was loose or hitting whenever I turned my steering wheel.

I took the steering wheel horn pad off and noticed that 2 of the rubber standoffs for the metal horn plate had broken loose causing the plate to clunk everytime I hit a bump.

I don't know if the 97 has the same horn setup, and I know it sounds kind of far fetched, but after super-gluing the two broken rubber standoffs back together (been aobut 2 months now), I don't have a single, solitary clunk anywhere on my '91 EX.

This is a VERY easy fix, but you never think to look there.

Good luck.

 

I'm very skeptical about putting merc V in a trans that calls for regular merc. Owners manuals even say specifically NOT to use merc V in a trans designed for merc. Ford will tell you that it's ok to use now, but ford also sells transmissions. They claim merc V was reformulated. Call the makers of the fluid and ask them, it was not changed. A rebuilt trans is different, my BTS 4R100 in my super duty originally took merc, but now takes merc V because its made for that fluid. I'm against additives too, heard way to many horror stories, i think they just mask a problem.

I'll try changing the fluid first thing, then if the problem still exists then i'll think about an additive. How hard is that TC drain plug to get to? I really haven't crawled around under the truck too much.

I don't think that is my problem. My clunk is definitely coming from outside the truck. I can even feel it in the floor sometimes. Its really loud with the windows down. Its even echoed off houses in town if i hit the right bump. Thats kinda scary lol I'll check it though.