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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:56 PM
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Yes, like Senix said. It will make a huge difference in the size of the fifth wheel.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:36 PM
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I am under the GCWR, but what I am really worried about is what everyone has said. The diesel has 2850, payload bone stock. I am looking at the Lariat so assume I lost 200 to the crap in that, then 2000 to the trailer, then 500 lbs to us meat sacks, that doesn't take into account the hitch and I am already at the max payload. Does anyone know if the camper options or the 5th wheel option that Ford offers stocks make any differences to the payload? Just wondering, as I would really prefer the 250 for the ride, but don't want to risk safety.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertF250 View Post
Not really tho...

Because de Max GVWR is 13,300 lbs.
Not for an F-250.

Maximum GVWRs are:

10,000 lbs for F-250
11,500 lbs for F-350 SRW
13,300 lbs for F-350 DRW

2012 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | Ford.com
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Jenkins View Post
I am under the GCWR, but what I am really worried about is what everyone has said. The diesel has 2850, payload bone stock. I am looking at the Lariat so assume I lost 200 to the crap in that, then 2000 to the trailer, then 500 lbs to us meat sacks, that doesn't take into account the hitch and I am already at the max payload. Does anyone know if the camper options or the 5th wheel option that Ford offers stocks make any differences to the payload? Just wondering, as I would really prefer the 250 for the ride, but don't want to risk safety.
You wouldn't be risking safety. For all intents and purposes, the 250 and 350 are identical trucks. There are a couple minor differences, but none that really change how much weight the truck can safely tow/haul. The lower GVWR is mainly for registration, insurance, and DOT purposes because these things can change drastically once you go over 10,000 lbs, especially if the truck is being used for commercial purposes.
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Jenkins View Post
I am under the GCWR, but what I am really worried about is what everyone has said. The diesel has 2850, payload bone stock. I am looking at the Lariat so assume I lost 200 to the crap in that, then 2000 to the trailer, then 500 lbs to us meat sacks, that doesn't take into account the hitch and I am already at the max payload. Does anyone know if the camper options or the 5th wheel option that Ford offers stocks make any differences to the payload? Just wondering, as I would really prefer the 250 for the ride, but don't want to risk safety.
Just a question here but have you driven both the 350 and the 250 or are you assuming the 350 will ride worse? Reason I ask is that I drove both prior to buying my 350 and could tell no difference in the ride between the two. I bought the 350 for the 11,500 GVWR.

This truck rides far better than my 2005 F-250 did. If you are concerned with staying within the ratings of the truck and it won't cost you a fortune to register, get the 350. If you aren't concerned with staying within the ratings and/or it will cost more to register the 350, get the 250. Really either truck will easily do what you're looking for.

As to the other parr of your question, neither the camper package nor the snow plow package will increase payload. Adding either package will add weight which takes away from available payload (on paper). The one constant number you can't change is the GVWR. You can register a different weight in some states but the GVWR stamped on the door post won't change.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd0axs View Post
Not for an F-250.

Maximum GVWRs are:

10,000 lbs for F-250
11,500 lbs for F-350 SRW
13,300 lbs for F-350 DRW

2012 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | Ford.com
That's exactly where I got the 13,300 lbs Max GVWR number from, except I looked at the Highlights sheet.


2012 Ford Super Duty | View Full Specification Library | Ford.com
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Jenkins View Post
I am under the GCWR, but what I am really worried about is what everyone has said. The diesel has 2850, payload bone stock. I am looking at the Lariat so assume I lost 200 to the crap in that, then 2000 to the trailer, then 500 lbs to us meat sacks, that doesn't take into account the hitch and I am already at the max payload. Does anyone know if the camper options or the 5th wheel option that Ford offers stocks make any differences to the payload? Just wondering, as I would really prefer the 250 for the ride, but don't want to risk safety.
Don't forget the weight of the people in the truck, that counts as "cargo" in the weight rating game.

David
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by powerstroke72 View Post
Just a question here but have you driven both the 350 and the 250 or are you assuming the 350 will ride worse? Reason I ask is that I drove both prior to buying my 350 and could tell no difference in the ride between the two. I bought the 350 for the 11,500 GVWR.

This truck rides far better than my 2005 F-250 did. If you are concerned with staying within the ratings of the truck and it won't cost you a fortune to register, get the 350. If you aren't concerned with staying within the ratings and/or it will cost more to register the 350, get the 250. Really either truck will easily do what you're looking for.

As to the other parr of your question, neither the camper package nor the snow plow package will increase payload. Adding either package will add weight which takes away from available payload (on paper). The one constant number you can't change is the GVWR. You can register a different weight in some states but the GVWR stamped on the door post won't change.
+1 The GVWR is, well the GVWR, licenced higher or not. Those #s on your saftey certificate decal as installed by the complete vehicle manufacture are legaly binding and ABSOLUTE. Yes, you can license higher, but that does not mean that it increases your GVWR (it can increase your GCWR though) by 1 pound, all it means is that you are giving your state the gift of free money.

I see a lot of mention of "DOT" rules. While certain dtates have restrictions, from a FEDERAL DOT rules point of view, unless using this in interstate COMMERCE, or FARM use, no rules apply.

For example, any PRIVATLY owned truck, not used in farm or COMMERCE (this is the legal definition of "commercial use") is not subject to Ferderal commercial (FMSCR's) DOT rules in ANY state. It also does not fall under any of my states commercial DOT rules as refined by my states RCW's. This is one of the most mistaken things out there, one that I spent weeks researchign and finally had to go to WSP commercial support / enforcement division in Olympia to straighten out.

Not in farm use, and one key wording - not in COMMERCE use, means NOT commercial from a federal perspective, and also by Washington state perspective as well. Remember "COMMERCE" it is the key here.

My 26k licensed PRIVATE, non commerce, therefore non commercial (and I do not have a farm) dump truck is NOT subject to the commercial rules, nor do I have to have a federal DOT #. The onlly reason I do not license it at say, 36k (for a combination GCWR) is that I do not pull a trailer, and keeping it at 26k max results in cheaper insurance (currenty $375 a YEAR)

If I were to have a PRIVATE, non commerce, non farm tandem axle dump at 56k, then there is a state staute (but no RCW's) that applies in that while it is NOT a commercial truck and does not need a federal DOT #, the staute requires a CDL license in this case as the director of the licensing division has found that certain vehicles, while not commercial, do require a higher standard of driver qualification....

This applies to my state, do some research (actualy pull up the LAW as WRITTEN, just do not ask) on yours before just assumiing there is a 10, 16, 26k limit, if there is any for a non commerce (and non farm), therfore non commercial (at least from the federal perspective in ALL 50 states) (your state may be more restrictive) use.

David
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:45 PM
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You asked about the camper package. I have the Camper package on my '08. It puts the auxilary springs on the rear with a stabilizer bar but it didn't increase the GVWR. It is still at 9600lbs. On my yellow sticker it says "camper certification". Not sure why that needs to be there.

I was comparing a '12 F250 sitting next to an F350 at the dealer the other day and the F350 has the aux springs as standard equipment and the F250 didn't have any. The F350's GVWR was 11,200. Frustrating my GVWR is still at 9600 when I have the add'l rear springs as the '12 F350!!!! And I also have the rear stabilizer bar and 350 doesn't!!!

Well I guess it really isn't all that important. I'm not over any of my weights and don't plan on upgrading the 5th wheel anytime soon. So I quess I'll shut up now.

S
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by spud57 View Post
You asked about the camper package. I have the Camper package on my '08. It puts the auxilary springs on the rear with a stabilizer bar but it didn't increase the GVWR. It is still at 9600lbs. On my yellow sticker it says "camper certification". Not sure why that needs to be there.

I was comparing a '12 F250 sitting next to an F350 at the dealer the other day and the F350 has the aux springs as standard equipment and the F250 didn't have any. The F350's GVWR was 11,200. Frustrating my GVWR is still at 9600 when I have the add'l rear springs as the '12 F350!!!! And I also have the rear stabilizer bar and 350 doesn't!!!

Well I guess it really isn't all that important. I'm not over any of my weights and don't plan on upgrading the 5th wheel anytime soon. So I quess I'll shut up now.

S
Your F-250 has the 9600 GVWR because it's an F-250. The F-250's GVWR can not exceed 10,000 lbs for reasons explained earlier in this thread. It has nothing to do with the physical capabilities of the truck or what equipment is installed, it's simply about the numbers and keeping the GVWR under 10,000 lbs. There is absolutely no reason that your F-250 can't safely haul the same payload as an F-350. It's just a big numbers game, that's all it is.

The camper package includes the auxiliary overload springs, stabilizer bar, and also heavier front springs. However, the overload spring is already included on the F-350 as standard equipment. These items do not increase the GVWR or payload capacity, their main function is to help stabilize the truck when it's carrying a load with a high center of gravity like a camper.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kd0axs View Post
Your F-250 has the 9600 GVWR because it's an F-250. The F-250's GVWR can not exceed 10,000 lbs for reasons explained earlier in this thread. It has nothing to do with the physical capabilities of the truck or what equipment is installed, it's simply about the numbers and keeping the GVWR under 10,000 lbs. There is absolutely no reason that your F-250 can't safely haul the same payload as an F-350. It's just a big numbers game, that's all it is.

The camper package includes the auxiliary overload springs, stabilizer bar, and also heavier front springs. However, the overload spring is already included on the F-350 as standard equipment. These items do not increase the GVWR or payload capacity, their main function is to help stabilize the truck when it's carrying a load with a high center of gravity like a camper.
Again I will point out as I did eatlier that the 10k limit is misunderstood and in non commercial, non farm use simply does not apply or even EXIST from a Ferderal perspective nor most states.

Unless of course it is commercial, which is defined as "in commerce" and NOT as in private use. --OR-- it is in Farm use.

So in reality, people who have a misconception on what is commercial and what is private use are really shooting themselves in the foot if they legaly need more load capacity, because same truck or not, those numbers on the saftery compliance sticker in the door jam are absoluts and are legaly binding, private or commercial use.

David
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:11 AM
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Hi, new guy here, first post. I just weighed my 08 super cab, short box, 5.4
SD, XLT. With a half tank of gas, it weighs 6740 lbs. I loaded 3000 lbs of reclaimed asphalt in it and had no problem whatsoever. It does have the camper package with 5300 lb front springs. I have a 8' Fisher HD plow that really softens the ride in winter. After reading this thread I decided to join so I could post the actual weight of this SD.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dmanlyr View Post
Again I will point out as I did eatlier that the 10k limit is misunderstood and in non commercial, non farm use simply does not apply or even EXIST from a Ferderal perspective nor most states.

Unless of course it is commercial, which is defined as "in commerce" and NOT as in private use. --OR-- it is in Farm use.

So in reality, people who have a misconception on what is commercial and what is private use are really shooting themselves in the foot if they legaly need more load capacity, because same truck or not, those numbers on the saftery compliance sticker in the door jam are absoluts and are legaly binding, private or commercial use.

David
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with Federal (FMCSA) rules. Many states have different registration procedures for vehicles over 10,000 lbs GVWR, regardless of whether they are used for commercial purposes or not. This can make it much more expensive to register an F-350 vs an F-250. For example, here in MN an F-350 gets commercial truck registration even if it's not being used for commercial purposes. An F-250 gets regular passenger car registration because it's under 10,000 lbs. They even get different license plates. It just so happens that this makes the F-350 registration cheaper here, but that's not the case in many states. Some insurance companies also handle vehicles over 10,000 lbs differently.

Also, Ford's rated capacities are not necessarily legal limits, they are simply Ford's recommendations. The laws on this vary by state, but I've thoroughly searched our laws here in MN and there is nothing that specifically prohibits exceeding the manufacturer's stated GVWR or GCWR. There are weights that are illegal to exceed, but GVWR and GCWR are not among them.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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My 2011 F550 V10 has 900# more carrying capacity than the exact same truck with a 6.7 diesel. The 6.7 and all associated hardware was 900# more in 2011. So there is considerable difference.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kd0axs View Post
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with Federal (FMCSA) rules. Many states have different registration procedures for vehicles over 10,000 lbs GVWR, regardless of whether they are used for commercial purposes or not. This can make it much more expensive to register an F-350 vs an F-250. For example, here in MN an F-350 gets commercial truck registration even if it's not being used for commercial purposes. An F-250 gets regular passenger car registration because it's under 10,000 lbs. They even get different license plates. It just so happens that this makes the F-350 registration cheaper here, but that's not the case in many states. Some insurance companies also handle vehicles over 10,000 lbs differently.

Also, Ford's rated capacities are not necessarily legal limits, they are simply Ford's recommendations. The laws on this vary by state, but I've thoroughly searched our laws here in MN and there is nothing that specifically prohibits exceeding the manufacturer's stated GVWR or GCWR. There are weights that are illegal to exceed, but GVWR and GCWR are not among them.
I understand that different states have different rules, and I noted that. I went to the Minnesota governement web site and came up with this - it looks like they have raised the limit to 15k since you checked? I know my stste changes things on a regular basis it seems.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=168.002

And I cut and pasted this part of it.

Subd. 21a.Noncommercial vehicle.

"Noncommercial vehicle" means a one-ton pickup truck registered under section 168.013, subdivision 1e, with a 15,000 pounds or less gross vehicle weight rating and for which the owner has made a declaration that the vehicle will be operated exclusively for personal use. The declaration must be based on one or more of the following:
(1) a change of vehicle use;
(2) registration of a new vehicle;
(3) transfer of vehicle ownership; or
(4) registration renewal.

End cut n paste

I am not trying to prove that I am right, or a know it all. I do not know other ststes rules and regs that well without some research, I am just trying to get people to realize that things are changing as personal use pickups get heavier and more capable and to do there homework as many states regs have changed in just the last few years.

While certain states differ, most are now adopting rules well in excess of 10k for persnal use, just like the FMSCR's have for a long time.

As to the legsl limits, you are correct on the GCWR, it is but a recommendation and as such, is not required to, and does not appear anywhere on the safety certification sticker. The other ratings are and as such do appear. This would be under federal law.

Ihope this helps, David
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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