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Old 06-26-2012, 05:33 PM
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Trouble shooting overheating issues

So, the 450 didn't do too well this past weekend. We experienced overheating issues....(needle in the red and lights on the dash...). Kinda a bummer especially since I expected the med duty truck to pull better than my F250 does. Two issues on the table....overheating and the engine is down on power (compared to my pickups).

So, overheating issue first.
Things I've learned while troubleshooting my issue:
  1. The thermostat begins to open at 195 degrees
  2. T-stat fully open by 205 degrees (about 3/16" at full open)
  3. Removing the radiator is pretty darn easy
  4. A radiator shop can remove the plastic tanks (upper and lower), flush the core and clean everything up for about $95
  5. There are two OEM versions of lower radiator hoses....(buyer beware)
  6. If your degass bottle cap isn't holding pressure, you can remove the o-ring, flip it around and it will hold pressure until you can locate a dealer and get a replacement for under $10

So, I'll slap the radiator back in tonight, install a new t-stat since I happen to have one in the box (I'll save the old stat just in case..). I think I'll swap the fan/clutch from my wife's truck (since it's fairly new) and see if the engine runs cooler.

If so, then I'll look into my power issue. I've suspected the injectors were worn ever since I got the truck. It has decent power but not what I expect compared to my other trucks. The injectors have almost 200k now and I presume they have lived a hard life so I'll go ahead and get them rebuilt with new nozzles sometime this fall.

Since the water temp was super high, I can only assume the oil temp was pretty high as well and perhaps the PCM was defueling?
Max boost was around 25 psi but I didn't get any over boost codes so I am a little bit baffled by that.

I think I really need a fuel pressure gauge on this truck....

Oh yeah....footnote: Banks Brake sucks! The OEM EBPV totally rocks over the Banks unit. Just an FYI....if you are considering a Banks Brake, don't waste your money.

Oh well, here are some pics. This is what the radiator looked like before and after and also what the T-stat looks like at full open (just yanked out of a pot of boiling water...)
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:52 PM
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Hmmmmm.......with extreme heat advisory for the next few days too. I think you are looking at the right items, especially the tstat. Yes, time for an injector fix. How does it start up...wait, its hot out. Won't have a starting issue if its already warm.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:58 PM
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I can help you do some work Friday afterwork. Early day for me.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lostmybeer View Post
Hmmmmm.......with extreme heat advisory for the next few days too. I think you are looking at the right items, especially the tstat. Yes, time for an injector fix. How does it start up...wait, its hot out. Won't have a starting issue if its already warm.
When it was cooler (back in the early spring)...it would start OK but the throttle was dead for the first 20-30 seconds. If I put it in drive, it wouldn't move unless I was over 50% throttle (checked with AE). Once it warms up it doesn't have that issue. Fuel mileage is pretty poor when towing so that is another indicator of worn injectors. When I am at 7500 ft and over 26k lb gross in stock tune the truck will just barely move from a dead stop. I can floor the pedal and count to 3 or 4 seconds before things will start rolling. Accompanied by some extra black smoke...

I remember how my F250 felt when it's injectors were worn out....this truck feels about the same way. That's OK though....I pretty much expected this when I bought the truck back in Dec but I wanted to give a real trial pull up some serious mountains just to be certain. Now I am certain.

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I can help you do some work Friday afterwork. Early day for me.
Thank you for the offer but I'll be heading back up to the rim on Thurs evening. I left the whole family up there. They are fishing and enjoying the 80 degree daytime temps and 50 degree nights while I melt down here in the valley.

At this point I am undecided if I'll take the F250 or F450 back up with me. I know my 250 will tow the rig back since it's done it for years already...but I'd like to test out the 450 to see if the cooling issue is resolved. Decisions, decisions...
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:33 PM
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Greg, I think your on to something with the Rad. I was surprised the outside wasn't full of ****. usually its lack of airflow that causes heat.
Consider Evans coolant. it works for me and with a zero pressure system no worries about blown hoses and such.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:05 PM
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The overheating can cause a loss of power. Also, I was having dead throttle issues a year or so ago. Turned out to be the IPR. It was sticking. I chased all sorts of wrong solutions before I figured it out. I finally ran AE on it one afternoon and noticed at idle at a stop light, the DC was 1.55%. Changed the IPR and its been great ever since.
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:38 AM
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FYI a new radiator with internal trans cooler from Ford is only $200.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfife View Post
Greg, I think your on to something with the Rad. I was surprised the outside wasn't full of ****. usually its lack of airflow that causes heat.
Consider Evans coolant. it works for me and with a zero pressure system no worries about blown hoses and such.
Barney
I was surprised as well. I was half expecting to find some blockage on the external cooling fins but they were remarkably clean considering the age of the vehicle. I forgot to mention, the radiator shop said the cores were about 25% blocked. They cleaned them out and now the radiator is good as new. I am not sure if that will totally solve my cooling issue so I suppose another test is in order. I also think that my fan clutch might not be engaging 100% because it wasn't roaring like my pickup trucks do. I went ahead and swapped the fan in from my wife's truck since it's a pretty new unit so I'll see if the 'roaring' sound is any different.

Do you have any links on the Evans coolant? I know zero about that stuff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by duck fan View Post
The overheating can cause a loss of power. Also, I was having dead throttle issues a year or so ago. Turned out to be the IPR. It was sticking. I chased all sorts of wrong solutions before I figured it out. I finally ran AE on it one afternoon and noticed at idle at a stop light, the DC was 1.55%. Changed the IPR and its been great ever since.
Good idea. I'll take a closer look at my IPR this next time. I did get a code for ICP higher than desired so that could possibly point to a sticky IPR issue. Hmmmmm....

Yeah, I am sorta hoping that my power issue is partially due to the excessive oil temps. I am still pretty sure that my injectors aren't tip top but I was seeing about 25 psi of boost on the serious hills so there is a little bit of me that wonders if weak injectors can make that much boost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crewcab Turbo View Post
FYI a new radiator with internal trans cooler from Ford is only $200.
You dealer must love you.
My dealer wants over $400 for that thing.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:59 PM
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Check with Bob at Dieselsite. that's where I picked up mine. I've got over 100K on the coolant and its still good. I like everything about the stuff other than the price but its good for 1M miles so once and done. I run his 203 tstat and gross over 29K and I can't make this thing over heat if I keep the RPM at 2000-2400 even in the western rockies.
http://www.dieselsite.com/evansnpgnp...uantities.aspx
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfife View Post
Check with Bob at Dieselsite. that's where I picked up mine. I've got over 100K on the coolant and its still good. I like everything about the stuff other than the price but its good for 1M miles so once and done. I run his 203 tstat and gross over 29K and I can't make this thing over heat if I keep the RPM at 2000-2400 even in the western rockies.
http://www.dieselsite.com/evansnpgnp...uantities.aspx
Barney

Thanks Barney,
I just watched the video on Jay Leno's Garage. Apparently he uses the stuff in a lot of his vehicles as well. Even showed an aluminum head plate that had a lot of corrosion on the back side that could have been avoided by using the Evan's Coolant.
$40 a gallon is pricey though....
Does sound like pretty good stuff. I presume the zero pressure is due to the lack of water so the fluid does not expand with heat?
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:34 PM
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:02 PM
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These temps at 110*F+ are not helping much. Just went checked my oil and coolant temps, 199*F...oil and 202*F...coolant. Truck has been sitting in driveway for the past hour. Tranny temp is 162*F right now. Good point about the fan clutch. Forgot I even had one.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake-N-Bake View Post
You dealer must love you.
My dealer wants over $400 for that thing.
We could have checked with my dealer, but that radiator looks new for $95.00. That's less than half the wholesale price.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:45 AM
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Greg, I run EVENS also. Its not cheap, but as stated above, as long as you don't loose it for some reason, you aren't going to replace it either. Mine also has a 203* stat and at 65mph (empty) with 85* amb. the coolant temp. is 203*, my oil temp is 30* cooler. I use the stock cap because I don't know if the system requires pressure. I ran zero press for a week or two so any water left after the flush and drain could evaporate from the system. When the condensation was gone from the top of the degas bottle I put the stock cap back on. I Also run the filter which keeps it so clear. I don't think this would solve the problem, but after you find the problem, this system will keep the inside clean. Hope you figure it out.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinson 108-1 View Post
Greg, I run EVENS also. Its not cheap, but as stated above, as long as you don't loose it for some reason, you aren't going to replace it either. Mine also has a 203* stat and at 65mph (empty) with 85* amb. the coolant temp. is 203*, my oil temp is 30* cooler. I use the stock cap because I don't know if the system requires pressure. I ran zero press for a week or two so any water left after the flush and drain could evaporate from the system. When the condensation was gone from the top of the degas bottle I put the stock cap back on. I Also run the filter which keeps it so clear. I don't think this would solve the problem, but after you find the problem, this system will keep the inside clean. Hope you figure it out.
Jim.
Thanks for the info. I am seriously considering the Evans for my truck. I want to test it out again with the current coolant just to make sure I have my issue resolved and then I'll probably switch to Evans after this towing season. In the whole scope of things....$280 isn't really all that much considering the benefits of a much higher boiling point, increased heat transfer, low pressure and no drop out of SCAs.

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