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1968-2013 Full Size Vans Econolines. E150, E250, E350, E450 and E550

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  #1  
Old 05-26-2012, 06:35 PM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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On the road and fuel tank problems

Evening all,

I am 7 hours away from home and having really bad problems with the front tank on my 1990 E250. I put a new fuel pump in it a few weeks back. When I turn the switch that chooses which tank the gauge shows a full tank on the front which it is. When I switch to the rear it shows the correct amount there also. Last night I switched from the rear tank at 1/4 tank to the full front tank. The gauge then showed full. I ran a while longer and then ran out of gas. Although the gauge was reading off the front tank it continued to take gas from the rear at which point I ran out of gas. I made it from the side the road at 2 am in the morning. I just stayed with the rear tank even though I had a full front tank for the rest of the night. This afternoon I went to Walmart for some things. I had nearly a full rear tank and definitely still the full front tank I could not get anything out of. Came out of Walmart, started the van and then all of a sudden my gas just started gushing out of the front filler tube with the cap tightly on. When I shut the van off it was still running out of the filler tube with the cap on. I removed the cap from the front tank at which point the gas started to rush out quicker for about 20 seconds until it just stopped. Waited a few minutes, started it back and within 1 minute it started to run out of the front filler tube again. Shut the van off because at this point I had a river of 93 octane fuel running from under my van. I started it again and thought maybe if I drove it around the parking lot it would stop. No such luck. I was just leaving a trail of my gas all around the parking lot. I stopped and shut it off. I sat for about ten minutes trying to think what to do. I was going to try to get up into the top of the front fuel tank and unplug the front tank pump and just disable the front pump. I could not get in there from any angle at all. I got back out and after about 15 minutes under the van I started the van again and the gas gushing just stopped. I still have and always had the rear tank selected. I quickly made it back to the hotel which is where I am typing from. No gas running out on the way back to the hotel. I need to get back home tomorrow night and don't want to catch on fire in the process. Is there anything I can do to make my ride more safe, or disable the front pump? What in the world do you guys think is going on? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sid
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:10 PM
95e150CW 95e150CW is offline
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Recall ID # 91V146000

Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
FORD / E-150 1991
FORD / E-250 1991
FORD / E-350 1991
FORD / E150 1989-1990
FORD / E250 1989-1990
FORD / E350 1989-1990
FORD / ECONOLINE 1989-1991
FORD / F150 1989
FORD / F250 1989
FORD / F350 1989
Manufacturer: FORD MOTOR COMPANY Mfr's Report Date: SEP 04, 1991
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 91V146000 NHTSA Action Number: EA91031
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:AUXILLARY TANK:SELECTOR DEVICES
Potential Number of Units Affected: 350,000
Summary:
Click the image to open in full size. THE DUAL FUEL TANK SELECTOR VALVE MAY MALFUNCTION AND CAUSE AN OVERFILL CONDITION IN ONE OF THE FUEL TANKS, RESULTING IN AN OVERFLOW OF FUEL PAST THE FILLER CAP.
Consequence:
Click the image to open in full size. THE OVERFLOW OF FUEL PAST THE FILLER CAP CAUSES A FUELLEAKAGE, WHICH CAN RESULT IN A FIRE WHEN EXPOSED TO A SOURCE OF IGNITION.
Remedy:
Click the image to open in full size. REPLACE THE DUAL FUEL TANK SELECTOR VALVE.
Notes:
Click the image to open in full size. SYSTEM: FUEL TANK, AUXILLIARY.VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: VANS AND LIGHT TRUCKS WITH DUAL FUEL TANKS PRODUCED IN THEFOLLOWING PERIODS: F150, F250, AND F350 LIGHT TRUCKS BUILT BETWEEN FEBRUARY 28,1989 AND JULY, 1989; ECONOLINE BUILT BETWEEN FEBRUARY 28, 1989 ANDFEBRUARY 11, 1991.NOTE: FORD HAS AGREED TO RECALL THESE VEHICLES BUT PARTS ARE NOT YET AVAILABLE.PARTS WILL BE AVAILABLE IN DECEMBER 1991. YOU WILL RECEIVE A LETTER FROM FORDADVISING YOU WHEN TO SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOUR DEALER TO HAVE THE RECALLWORK PERFORMED. IN THE MEAN TIME, YOU CAN TAKE THE FOLLOWING PRECAUTIONS:FILL EACH TANK TO ONLY 1/3 FULL.IF YOUR VEHICLE LEAKS FUEL OR IF YOU SMELL FUEL, STOP USING THE VEHICLE ANDCALL FORD AT (313) 446-4654 AND ADVISE THEM OF YOUR PROBLEM. REFER TO FORDSAFETY RECALL NUMBER 91S39. AN OPERATOR WILL TAKE YOUR NAME AND TELEPHONENUMBER. A FORD REPRESENTATIVE WILL CALL YOU BACK.


Your fuel selection valve has gone **** up. Their fix was to install check valves. The part is no longer made as far as I know. I had to install a generic one on my 96. Part was ACDELCO u7000. I had to get diagrams and rewire/install the new connector. SAFTEY RECALLS DO NOT EXPIRE. You might be able to get it fixed free at a ford dealer if the recall wasn't performed. If it WAS performed, and an aftermarket valve was installed, you are on your own.


Edit to add: http://owner.ford.com/servlet/Conten...ge/RecallsPage <- recall check by VIN.
To get it home, you can bypass the selector switch by disconnecting the engine side supply and return lines, then joining them to the return and supply lines for one of your tanks. Cap off the selector valve ports with a section of hose, routing the supply back into the return to prevent accidents. This would disable the other tank, and could be risky if you are not comfortable working with fuel lines.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2012, 07:22 PM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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No fuel valve recall help

Thank you very much for the great info. You pegged exactly what was happening to the van this weekend. After it did it again on the side of the road, I took the tire iron and bumped the side of the valve a few times and then it stopped so I could drive it home.
I called a Ford dealership this morning and told them what was up. I gave them the recall number you gave me and the details of my numerous events with this valve this weekend. He asked for my VIN number which I gave. He returns to the phone and tells me my van was not covered under the recall. How in the H**L can that be? My van is doing exactly what the recall is out there for. My van is one of the listed model types in the literature you posted and MINE is not covered. What can I do? Is there anything I can do with FORD? What if they cannot or will not fix the valve. Can I take it apart and clean it myself or I take it that won't do it because this problem was rearing its head when the vehicle was new and right of the showroom floor.

Any suggestions would be most welcome again. Should I look at another valve type or rewire like you did perhaps?

Thanks again

Sid
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  #4  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:54 AM
95e150CW 95e150CW is offline
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The proper part number (I think) is F1UZ9B263B, but if you have a 6 port unit it will be different. There are a few on eBay for ~190 bucks. Unless you are comfortable with electrical, I wouldn't use the generic aftermarket unit. The Ford unit also has a reservoir diaphragm and spring built into it. Call your dealer and verify the part number for the fuel tank selector valve. Its quite easy to install. If you could find it to hit it, you can put a wrench on it, use a fuel line release tool, pull the electrical connector and replace it. Just pull the fuel pump fuse and start/crank the truck for a few seconds to relieve fuel pressure.

Put your vin into that site I linked in my first post. It will show any recalls left on the van. I find it strange that they wouldn't recall that vehicle, unless it had already had the recall performed or the recall is so old they couldn't find it. Its also possible your vehicle was built outside the date ranges listed. Check the date range on the door. If its covered, call Fords customer service line. If its NOT, i would still call Ford and let them know you are experiencing the condition listed in the recall on a vehicle that wasn't covered, and file a concern on the NHTSA website. Keep the receipts. If it ever does become a recall, you can get a refund of what is owed. It is unlikely given the age of the vehicle, but stranger things have happened.
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2012, 02:41 PM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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6 port fuel valve for 1990

If these fuel valves were being recalled from the get go as new, what makes a new one off ebay or a new one fropm Ford good then? Wouldn't I be right back in the same boat? Can I take the thing apart and clean it or fix something inside? I know you said they'd install a check valve but I am at Ford's mercy if and when they decide to recall. What would the dealer do for me anyway do you think if I take it in?

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:09 PM
95e150CW 95e150CW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityjack View Post
If these fuel valves were being recalled from the get go as new, what makes a new one off ebay or a new one fropm Ford good then? Wouldn't I be right back in the same boat? Can I take the thing apart and clean it or fix something inside? I know you said they'd install a check valve but I am at Ford's mercy if and when they decide to recall. What would the dealer do for me anyway do you think if I take it in?

Thanks again for your help.
The valves were redesigned 2 decades ago to fix the problem. Its illegal to sell known defective products. The valves can be disassembled, and people have posted guides. It may be easier to get the 90 dollar replacement and reqire the connector. The check valve was intended to be a stopgap till they actually corrected the problem, which was a new fuel selector valve design. The dealer would install a new selector valve and bill you if it wasn't covered under a recall.
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2012, 07:23 PM
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The check valve were used on the fuel systems that a high pressure in-tank pump.
You do not have that fuel system. The only thing putting a check valve on your system would do is make a bad problem worse.

On the systems with the high pressure in-tank pump they were put on each high pressure line leaving each tank.
The check valves will not help you on a 1991 van as you only have low pressure in-tank pumps.

You do have the fuel selector valve on the frame that has no electrical wire going to it.
It also sounds like your front tank pump may not be pumping at all and you rear in-tank pump is pumping when you select the front tank.

You may have a bad selector switch on the dash along with a selector valve with a stuck return valve stuck on the front tank.

Some more information:
http://www.stangler.com/motorsports/...alve/index.htm

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  #8  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:24 PM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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Switch and valve

Very interesting guys. I would much rather put a known good new FORD valve back in and make it right. I really do not want to rewire anything to be honest. I think I'll start with the switch on the dash because I am pretty sure it is suspect. Mr. Subford, at one time you mentioned where I can get a switch from that will replace the 50 or 60 dollar OEM switch. Can you please toss me that info again? Also if I remember correctly, the contacts were not as OEM on the replacement switch, any wiring help would be great as well. After the switch and probably at the same time, I will get me a new valve from Ford just to be sure. I'll have to contact the dealer to get the part #.

Thanks guys.

I'll keep you posted.

Sid
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2012, 10:31 PM
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I think the image below is what you are talking about.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

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  #10  
Old 05-31-2012, 11:20 AM
mustangman mustangman is offline
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on my 87 econoline i eliminated the front tank , should of kept it and made the tank a tool box with an access hole inside the van lol,,, well back to my mod, made all newhigh pressure and return lines only to rear 22 gallon tank, left wireplug on disabled transfer valve as i have tank selector switch on rear so i can get gas guage to work on the rear,i put in new tank.sending unit,inside and outside pump,have both pumps wired to a 12 volt direct bypassing fuelpump relay,i always use 120v house switches as they never break like the 12v switches availble at autoparts,,you can install the inertia switch also in the circuit if u wish,, to me the tranfer valve is garbage though it never failed me before my mod, i like the simplicity of my mod can figure out any problem with the fuel system in seconds, i also added a led volt meter direct to the pumps so i know what volts they are getting when theyr on
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2012, 07:47 AM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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SW48 switch for stank selector

Morning all,

I am going out to AZ to buy this switch. I noticed yesterday at AZ that the bottom of the switch via a picture only has pins labeled as 1-6. How do I know what numbers to match to what wires on the schematic you were so nice to include? Ohmeter? You'd think for 15 bucks they'd do the work for you.

Thanks for your help. Also, can I eliminate the fuel inertia switch by any chance? The less variables the better.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:41 AM
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The switch should be wired something like this:
Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 06-03-2012, 11:01 AM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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Draining the front tank

Thank you sir for the switch pin out. What is the best way to drain the front tank? I have a very hard time getting a hose all the way into the tank to siphon.

Have a good rest of the weekend.

Sid
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:20 AM
cityjack cityjack is offline
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Dual tanks again. NOT GIVING UP!

Ok sir, good afternoon by the way. Fast forward to about 3 months since my issues with the selector valve or whatever it was that would cause the fuel to shoot back out the filler tube when the engine was running.
I have finally got around to buying the AutoZone SW48 selector switch and installed it yesterday. I have a full tank on the front and a half in the back. The front tank pump is new. The rear pump never had a problem. Once I put the new switch in and the day before I put it in I would select a tank, the fuel gauge would respond correctly and you could hear each pump energizing respectively, but with either tank, the engine would run for about 5 seconds and then die. I'd switch back and forth between the tanks and the same thing would happen, the gauge would read correctly, you could hear the correct pump energize. Turn the key, it would start and run for about 5 seconds. Either tank was the same thing. Although, sometimes on either tank, it would run for about 30 seconds or even a minute and then die.
I am sure I still probably have to address the selector valve issue, but do you think this could cause this latest symptom or could it be the pump on the frame also?

Thank you sir.

Sid
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:08 PM
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Does the pump on the frame run for one second each time the key is turned ON?
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:08 PM
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