Hey everyone.
I'm new here and your site has been very helpful so far in sorting out my truck. I'm an avid gear head and prefer to do all my one maintenance and repair work (when feasible).

I'm at the point where I haven't found the answer searching the forum and google so here is the scene.

I recently bought an 83 F250 4x4 with the 460. Truck appears to be stock for the most part.

My problem is this truck has electrical insanity. Someone prior had installed a Jacobs ignition module and hacked up the harness. The unit was taking up space ad not even connected to the distributor. (I removed it.) The guy I bought it from say he was driving along and it died on him. Wouldn't turn over. So he bump started it and drove home until the battery died (it was at night). He subsequently bump started it several more times til he burned out the solenoid. He put on a new one before I took the truck. He thought the regulator was bad and pulled it out. I had the regulator tested and it was good (even with the scorch mark on the body). With some searching and educated guesses, I pieced the regulator wiring back together and I have the alternator, regulator and the solenoid properly wired. I've checked for proper voltage with my meter in various places and everything checks out. Turn the key to on and indicator lights come one and fuel pump is running (another addition, but apparently functional) but when I try to start nothing happens. I then checked the inertia switch, no change. I dropped the column and pulled the ignition switch and checked the connector and switch. Everything checks out. I checked for continuity of the ST circuit (which I understood goes to the solenoid) and it is good. I checked the ig switch for continuity in start and run and it is good. I checked for proper alignment on the column with the key cylinder rod. Seems fine. I even had someone turn the key to start while I checked the voltage on the start lead at the solenoid, it only read 1v which I know is far less then it should be.

I'm baffled as to the source of the problem . If anyone has an idea about this I would be immensely grateful.

Thanks in advance.
Chris

Edit: Here are some pics.


Here she is!



Interior is a bit screwed, but it's a work truck after all, :/


Spagetti... Previous owner tried to clean it up (yeah it was worse).


Where to these connect to?? (3 female connectors)


Should these be connected??


Solenoid. start lead is red/lt blue and heads into the pass side cab.


Large and small yellow wire go to alt, green to regulator and red to bat pos. At least that is how I wired it.


Behind dash where radio would be. Cut wires etc.


Water Temp gauge, prev owner said didn't work.


Interesting...


The only lights that seem to work is the turn signals and the 3rd from left. It has no lens so I don't know what it represents. From left to right, 1, 4, 5, and 7 don't light up at all no matter the ignition position.

 

New to Ford, so my vocab is lacking and this probably won't be a solution anyway. But, what about the junction on the passenger fender. The one the pos. battery cable goes to. Has two other main power terminals, starter and alt I believe, and then the ignition signal wire. I know that's replaceable, there was a thread on the two different parts a few days ago, been looking for it. If unmetered voltage has been going inappropriate places because of the hack job not impossible that's fried.

 

The small red/blue-stripe wire at the solenoid should have full battery voltage with the key in START and leads back to the ignition switch. If you have 12V in START at the ignition switch on that wire, but only 1V at the other end of that wire (at the starter solenoid) that wire is badly damaged somewhere along the way, I would trace it to find where.

Having continuity between the two ends of a conductor is a good thing, but... we have stranded wire here... If the wire is damaged and only one or two copper strands exist end to end, your continuity will measure fine but there isn't enough of a conductor to carry any actual current (voltage) between the two ends.

I would trace that red/blue-stripe wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid, see what's up there.



I'm also wondering what "bump starting" means. Sounds to me like push-starting with a manual transmission - get the vehicle rolling somehow (push it), put it in gear and release the clutch, this will turn the engine and hopefully start it. But I don't understand how the PO could burn out a starter solenoid doing that..........?

 

bump starting is getting the motor turning by dumping the clutch and hitting the key to try and get it to spark and take off, takes a load of the starter thus allowing more power to dizzy and coil trying to get more spark.

 

I belive you are talking about the starter solenoid. Its supposedly brand new and looks new. The previous owner replaced it prior to selling.

That makes sense on the start lead. I was hoping to not have to undo the harness wrapping, but it seems inevitable at this point to find the problem.

bump starting is not 'popping the clutch' on a push start, its when you bypass the ignition switch at the solenoid by put 12v to the solenoid remotely at the battery or some other always hot source in order to 'bump' the starter manually. Its also called remote starting and mechanics use this so they don't have to go into the cab to start it. Most people use a screwdriver or something. Its can be done on models that have the solenoid on the starter too. Same principle.

By the way, I forgot to mention its auto trans. (with a broken shift indicator in the cluster, lol)

 

To answer your questions above...
1) fuel pump - yes, it shouldn't be on all the time but it is aftermarket external pump that at least is pumping fuel to the carb. I will adress this if needed once it will start on its own.
2)Define nothing at start - just that, nothing. Dash lights dim and not even a peep from the solenoid. I'm having trouble identifying the lights as some of the lens are missing or dislodged.
3)ST circuit continuity - Yes, I will need to check for damage to that wire.
4)ig switch - I pulled the switch and using my volt meter, check for continuity bewtween BATT and ST circuit to make sure that the switch was connecting them when turned to start and run.

Any other ideas before I take apart the harness? Would checking resistance tell me if the wire was damaged?

Chris

 

You can try checking the resistance of the red/blue-stripe wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid but I don't know how much it will help you. You should have close to 0 ohms (no resistance) in a good wire but you'll probably get that even if only two strands of the wire are connected end to end.

Might also try temporarily running a replacement wire from the switch to the solenoid.

One more question.... Turn your headlights on (I'm assuming they work) what happens to them when you turn the key to START? Don't say "nothing," but tell us exactly what happens - they stay the same brightness, they dim a little, they dim a LOT, etc.

BTW how much do the dash lights dim? Estimated percentage is fine.

 

BTW I meant to say 'shouldn't' on the fuel pump. you are right its not normal.

here is a vid I just did of me trying to start it. Each time the light in the dash dims is when I turn the key to the start position.

http://youtu.be/Q4ylAuEXkv0

 

And, the headlights don't dim, that's a good sign.

Dash lights aren't dimming excessively, that's also good.

I would want to investigate that harness and see what's up.

There is alsot the Neutral Safety Switch (on automatic trans) and some trucks with clutches have switches that do the same job.

Trace the red/blue-stripe wire and see where it goes. It should go ignition switch -> NSS/clutch switch (if applicable) -> starter solenoid.

 

I have an idea... you have an automatic transmission, see if reaching around with your left hand and pulling the shift lever up while you turn the key with your right hand changes anything.

 

Yeah, had that thought too about the NSS. I hear its a PITA sometimes to replace.

I see where your going, I'll give that a shot right now and let you know.

 

I pulled up and down and jiggled it around while trying to start it and no change. Guess I'm going to be chasing that wire.

Take a look at the OP edit I posted. I put a bunch of pics and there are some other wiring oddites that may or may not be connected. Mainly the driver side engine bay wiring.

 

Before you take the harness apart, crawl under there and find the NSS on the transmission. Some of those C6 switches are combined with a backup light switch and have 4 wires to them.

I wouldn't do this permanently but you can maybe find a way to jumper the red/blue-stripe wire, this will remove the NSS from the equation.

I just scrolled up and looked at your pictures....... boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy are you gonna have fun.

Dude, get yourself a factory wiring diagram, I see two of them on eBay for around $20 + shipping.

I can tell you about 2 of the three connectors you're asking about....

(Light) Green/yellow-stripe = always-on power, it's under there for the optional underhood lamp:





The solid brown is your parking light/side markers/license plate illumination/overhead marker illumination circuit. Methinks you have the Towing option which I *think* includes that connector down there for future wiring to a rear trailer-wiring connector.

No idea what the third one is.

A word of advice: crimp connections like I see near your starter solenoid are destined to be future trouble, open connections that are exposed to the elements like that will corrode and eventually fail. Solder & heat-shrink tubing make for a far superior connection.

 

I know, its a mess in there!

I nabbed the wiring diagram. Might also get a Shop repair manual I saw on ebay too. Should be much more illuminating than the haynes manual I picked up.

I'll try to get under the truck this weekend and try to bypass the NSS.

Thanks for your interest and help in diagnosing this!

 

You will like the factory shop manual but be warned there are many. I'd guess you're looking at the Body/Chassis/Electrical one. There's a separate one for the engine, another for the emissions, there's an EVTM (many people like this, might search for that one, too), the wiring diagrams, maybe one or two others, I forget for certain.

What you call "bump starting" I call "jumping the solenoid." I have a remote starter switch, I grew up and graduated to Professional Grade.

I don't understand how somebody can burn out a solenoid by doing that but that's OK, I'm probably reading too fast.

Might read THIS THREAD about starter solenoids.

NP.