Looking to buy an excursion, need advice
#1
Looking to buy an excursion, need advice
Hi everybody,
I'm obviously brand new to the forum, but I have been browsing through alot of posts on here recently concerning the 00-05 excursions with the 6.0L powerstroke. This is my first experience with diesel engines, as a matter of fact this will technically be my first car, I am 16. I'm looking into checking out an excursion about an hour away from where I am, it's a 2003 green limited with 2WD and 67,000 miles for $17,850, currently myself and my mother are looking to trade in our 06 chevy equinox with about 52000 on it for a bigger truck to carry friends as well as tow a 22' trophy boat on occasion and since I have always had a love for that sound of a diesel the excursion is first on my list, not to mention the fact that our equinox for some reason seems to get about 8mpg constantly. But back to the point, I figured that this is the best way to look for advice and I apologize in advance if I am posting this in the wrong section. I am going to schedule an appointment for a test drive this weekend and so far my scrutinizing will include the basics: looking for rust, bubbling paint, tire tread, interior quality, lights, leaks, radio, A/C....etc. But I am glad I started reading posts on here about the 6.0L, obviously the parts that worry me the most on these trucks are the same that I am sure worry everyone, the EGR cooler and the Oil cooler. I especially worry because we had problems with a previous expedition we bought new in 01 that blew a head gasket before 35,000 but that's no reflection on Ex's, just the mention of bad EGR's and coolers leading to it brings up bad memories. I know that the common sign of the EGR boiling coolant is white steam coming out of the exhaust, but beyond that or checking the coolant level after putting the EX through its paces I wanted to know if there were any other ways to detect reliability problems, since I can't start breaking down the engine on the lot to check for a clogged oil cooler or bad EGR and I don't know of any reputable shops in the area who can get it on a lift for a once over. As far as the carfax goes, for an 03 it only has 7 service records, but that is more than average as far as I noticed while searching for other EX's. The fact that it's a 9 y/o truck with 67,000 leads me to believe that it was used mostly as a weekend warrior for camping or towing but not as a daily driver in the past, either that or an odometer rollback which I doubt since it's digital. I'd greatly appreciate any advice, and already appreciate what you guys have taught me about these trucks so far. Assuming we do purchase this or any EX first mod after purchase would be the bulletproof diesel EGR cooler, and service the oil cooler, most likely change to synthetic, change the filters, anything to try and increase reliability, later down the road probably a tuner and a bigger exhaust. I am pretty handy so anything that can be done without a lift I'll take a stab at. Again sorry if I sound like an idiot, I am not that familiar with diesels so I'm a bonafide newbie. Please let me know if there's anything I'm missing
Thanks again everybody I am glad to be a part of the forum, hopefully soon to have a real reason to be here.
I'm obviously brand new to the forum, but I have been browsing through alot of posts on here recently concerning the 00-05 excursions with the 6.0L powerstroke. This is my first experience with diesel engines, as a matter of fact this will technically be my first car, I am 16. I'm looking into checking out an excursion about an hour away from where I am, it's a 2003 green limited with 2WD and 67,000 miles for $17,850, currently myself and my mother are looking to trade in our 06 chevy equinox with about 52000 on it for a bigger truck to carry friends as well as tow a 22' trophy boat on occasion and since I have always had a love for that sound of a diesel the excursion is first on my list, not to mention the fact that our equinox for some reason seems to get about 8mpg constantly. But back to the point, I figured that this is the best way to look for advice and I apologize in advance if I am posting this in the wrong section. I am going to schedule an appointment for a test drive this weekend and so far my scrutinizing will include the basics: looking for rust, bubbling paint, tire tread, interior quality, lights, leaks, radio, A/C....etc. But I am glad I started reading posts on here about the 6.0L, obviously the parts that worry me the most on these trucks are the same that I am sure worry everyone, the EGR cooler and the Oil cooler. I especially worry because we had problems with a previous expedition we bought new in 01 that blew a head gasket before 35,000 but that's no reflection on Ex's, just the mention of bad EGR's and coolers leading to it brings up bad memories. I know that the common sign of the EGR boiling coolant is white steam coming out of the exhaust, but beyond that or checking the coolant level after putting the EX through its paces I wanted to know if there were any other ways to detect reliability problems, since I can't start breaking down the engine on the lot to check for a clogged oil cooler or bad EGR and I don't know of any reputable shops in the area who can get it on a lift for a once over. As far as the carfax goes, for an 03 it only has 7 service records, but that is more than average as far as I noticed while searching for other EX's. The fact that it's a 9 y/o truck with 67,000 leads me to believe that it was used mostly as a weekend warrior for camping or towing but not as a daily driver in the past, either that or an odometer rollback which I doubt since it's digital. I'd greatly appreciate any advice, and already appreciate what you guys have taught me about these trucks so far. Assuming we do purchase this or any EX first mod after purchase would be the bulletproof diesel EGR cooler, and service the oil cooler, most likely change to synthetic, change the filters, anything to try and increase reliability, later down the road probably a tuner and a bigger exhaust. I am pretty handy so anything that can be done without a lift I'll take a stab at. Again sorry if I sound like an idiot, I am not that familiar with diesels so I'm a bonafide newbie. Please let me know if there's anything I'm missing
Thanks again everybody I am glad to be a part of the forum, hopefully soon to have a real reason to be here.
#3
#4
jitterbug--you seem like a great kid. I applaud your enthusiasm for a diesel Excursion. I own a 2005 Ex with 6.0L. Please understand, however, that these trucks are not cheap to own. They sound great and are phenomenal when towing. But, the maintenance costs (e.g. 15 qt of oil) can really add up. And, that is when nothing goes wrong.
To put in the reliability mods that I consider necessary would add about $4,500 to $5,000 to the price you pay for the truck. You could buy a lot of gas for a V-10 Excursion for that amount of money (plus the money you save on the initial price of the V10 vs. 6.0L).
Why do I own a 6.0L? I need to tow heavy--over 10,000 lbs with plenty of wind resistance to boot. The 6.0 does a great job and the Torqshift transmission is superb. Plus, I have used my two (2) Excursions to learn a lot about diesel engines in general. Sometimes the hard way.
Good luck with your search.
To put in the reliability mods that I consider necessary would add about $4,500 to $5,000 to the price you pay for the truck. You could buy a lot of gas for a V-10 Excursion for that amount of money (plus the money you save on the initial price of the V10 vs. 6.0L).
Why do I own a 6.0L? I need to tow heavy--over 10,000 lbs with plenty of wind resistance to boot. The 6.0 does a great job and the Torqshift transmission is superb. Plus, I have used my two (2) Excursions to learn a lot about diesel engines in general. Sometimes the hard way.
Good luck with your search.
#5
Or for 17k you, Jitterbug, could get yourself into a very decent 7.3 diesel and not worry about having to sink that kind of money into having to make it reliable. Yes, I do realize when you buy used it's a crap shoot..but I would put my money on a 7.3 before a 6.0L in my humble opinion.
I'm not stating every 6.0L out there is junk, but the reputation the 6.0L has doesn't help it whatsoever. Just see what used 7.3's are going for used compared to 6.0L.
For the record, I'm not starting the old 6.0L vs 7.3L debate. I speak from seeing and hearing of way more problems with the 6.0L than the 7.3L.
I'm not stating every 6.0L out there is junk, but the reputation the 6.0L has doesn't help it whatsoever. Just see what used 7.3's are going for used compared to 6.0L.
For the record, I'm not starting the old 6.0L vs 7.3L debate. I speak from seeing and hearing of way more problems with the 6.0L than the 7.3L.
#6
If I was you I would look for a v10 6.8, 1 Gas is cheaper 2. It's cheaper to work on. 3. With the money you save you can put tons of nice stuff on it. I wanted to go diesel and you think your going to save money by saying you get more mpg for diesel but your paying more for it and if anything happens it's more money to fix it. The v10 will pull just about anything you stick behind it. But that's just my .02
#7
If I was you I would look for a v10 6.8, 1 Gas is cheaper 2. It's cheaper to work on. 3. With the money you save you can put tons of nice stuff on it. I wanted to go diesel and you think your going to save money by saying you get more mpg for diesel but your paying more for it and if anything happens it's more money to fix it. The v10 will pull just about anything you stick behind it. But that's just my .02
I would second going for a V10. Unless the 6.0 has had anything done to it expect to spend another 4,000-5,000 for the typical bulletproof and usual early 6.0 problems. If you are dead set on a Diesel I would look for a lower mileage 7.3. Im in the same boat as the OP Im 21 and sometimes tow but I have always wanted a diesel but regular maintenance is very expensive over time. 15 qts of oil, 18 qts of transmission fluid, not to mention usual "super duty" parts. I bought mine because It was too cheap to pass up! But thats my two cents, whichever you choose make sure its what YOU REALLY want. Also Gas is much easier to fix, My Excursion just went through a set of injectors about 3,000.00 later it runs right! just keep in mind the old saying "if you want to play, you gotta pay" ! Good luck in your decision. I know people have their own opinion on this guy but The buying a used powerstroke series helped me!
HOW TO BUY A USED POWERSTROKE DIESEL TRUCK - 1 OF 4 - YouTube
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#8
First of all, welcome. I was in your shoes a few years back and wanted a diesel 4x4 with all the goodies. Being in SoCal it's sometimes hard not to play that game of who's truck is better(keeping up with the Jones' and all) especially seeing all our friends cool trucks while going out to the desert.
Well my family didn't get a diesel, we got the V10. And let me just say that was probably the best decision we made. Ya I love the sound of diesels and everything else that goes along with them, but financial wise it would have been too much, and since we were buying a new 05 that would have had the 6.0....I'm pretty sure we dodged a bullet based on the stories I've heard, and actually having a family friends truck with the 6.0 basically strand them in the desert for a couple hours.
Like a few other people have mentioned just do some searches for a 7.3 if you are absolutely set on a diesel, and don't mind the higher cost of operation. If you want more options I'd say take a look at a nice used 4x4 V10. I'd personally go for a V10 4x4, than a diesel 2wd any day. There are definitely more options for a 4x4 suspension/lift wise and might be a good option for those sometimes slippery boat ramps.
We tow our toybox (20ft, loaded with 3 bikes, 1 quad, and all the groceries, an fluids) and I'm sure it's probably heavier than your boat. The Excursion, with only a few mods, K&N intake, rear airbags, does great.
Just way all your options
Well my family didn't get a diesel, we got the V10. And let me just say that was probably the best decision we made. Ya I love the sound of diesels and everything else that goes along with them, but financial wise it would have been too much, and since we were buying a new 05 that would have had the 6.0....I'm pretty sure we dodged a bullet based on the stories I've heard, and actually having a family friends truck with the 6.0 basically strand them in the desert for a couple hours.
Like a few other people have mentioned just do some searches for a 7.3 if you are absolutely set on a diesel, and don't mind the higher cost of operation. If you want more options I'd say take a look at a nice used 4x4 V10. I'd personally go for a V10 4x4, than a diesel 2wd any day. There are definitely more options for a 4x4 suspension/lift wise and might be a good option for those sometimes slippery boat ramps.
We tow our toybox (20ft, loaded with 3 bikes, 1 quad, and all the groceries, an fluids) and I'm sure it's probably heavier than your boat. The Excursion, with only a few mods, K&N intake, rear airbags, does great.
Just way all your options
#10
like everyone is saying - a 6.oh no diesel should never your first diesel purchase. They can be great engines, but they need lots of TLC, and it is horribly expensive to pay someone to do it for you. Unless you plan to enroll in trade school, then it is a great learning platform!
If you really want a trouble free diesel, look at a used Dodge with the Cummins motor.
If you really want a trouble free diesel, look at a used Dodge with the Cummins motor.
#12
Thanks everybody for all of your input, I really appreciate it. I understand how the V10 is an enticing engine but the problem with it for me is that it really puts me back at square one in terms of wanting better fuel economy. So I think I'm going to take the advice to hold out for a 7.3L, or if I can find a 6.0 for a good price that I can use the leftover budget to do an oil cooler rebuild with a BPD EGR cooler to offset some of the overheating that leads to all the other problems, I trust my hands, I don't mind getting down in there into the intake but I would prefer to avoid it with a 7.3L. But most of the 7.3L Ex's that I find are getting up in miles 165K+, does anyone have a good estimate as to what the mileage ceiling for a 7.3L is, or are there any "bulletproof" type upgrades that can be done on them to increase it? I'm sure this question has been asked before please feel free to correct me. My understanding is that the 7.3L Ex's are much more resilient to neglect but I take good care of my vehicles, synthetic oil change every 5000 filter every 7000, scanguages to keep everything in check, I'm sure with a diesel that change interval might increase due to the sheer amount I will have to add but I plan on driving this thing until it turns to dust in all honesty.
Thanks again everyone
Thanks again everyone
#13
Sitting on the outside looking in....
I currently own a 2008 Ford SuperDuty Crew w/6.4L Diesel. Apples and oranges mileage wise to a 6.0 and 7.3.The Diesel Particulate Filter and emission requirements on the 6.4 make it do poorly on fuel mileage.
But, having said that... take a look at what the mileage figures that folks are getting with the 6.0 or 7.3. Then compare that to V10s.
V10s run on regular fuel. What is the difference in cost between regular and diesel? Then, how many miles do you drive, how many oil changes are you looking at in what amount of time? I don't remember what my 6.0 took in my 05 SuperDuty, I don't know what the 7.3 takes for oil, but my 6.4 needs nearly 4 gallons of oil. Oil change on a 6.4 runs north of $80 with you doing your own work. Bet the V10 comes in markedly cheaper.
What type of driving will you be doing? Diesels are not meant for short hop, run to the grocery store, over to the parts store, stop by the library and then go home. They are meant to start up, warm up, and run for a good period of time. The V10 OTOH will have no problems with hop and stops etc.
The 7.3 and 6.0s are VERY noisy. Hit a drive through and you will be asked to turn off the truck so they can hear you over the engine. Ride along and you KNOW you are in a diesel. (BTW, my 6.4 is much quieter... Ford getting it right there.)
Finally, what is the cost difference on the purchase price for a diesel vs a V10? Compare the V10 and diesel mileage, fuel costs, oil changes, and if the diesel comes out ahead, figure out how many miles you will have to drive to make up for the higher purchase price.
Since I am actually moving "down" into a V10 from a diesel I have some experience with both. Can't beat a diesel when you put a load on the truck, but you have to look at a lot of factors.
As a salesman once told me... "with a diesel you are buying a piece of equipment".
I currently own a 2008 Ford SuperDuty Crew w/6.4L Diesel. Apples and oranges mileage wise to a 6.0 and 7.3.The Diesel Particulate Filter and emission requirements on the 6.4 make it do poorly on fuel mileage.
But, having said that... take a look at what the mileage figures that folks are getting with the 6.0 or 7.3. Then compare that to V10s.
V10s run on regular fuel. What is the difference in cost between regular and diesel? Then, how many miles do you drive, how many oil changes are you looking at in what amount of time? I don't remember what my 6.0 took in my 05 SuperDuty, I don't know what the 7.3 takes for oil, but my 6.4 needs nearly 4 gallons of oil. Oil change on a 6.4 runs north of $80 with you doing your own work. Bet the V10 comes in markedly cheaper.
What type of driving will you be doing? Diesels are not meant for short hop, run to the grocery store, over to the parts store, stop by the library and then go home. They are meant to start up, warm up, and run for a good period of time. The V10 OTOH will have no problems with hop and stops etc.
The 7.3 and 6.0s are VERY noisy. Hit a drive through and you will be asked to turn off the truck so they can hear you over the engine. Ride along and you KNOW you are in a diesel. (BTW, my 6.4 is much quieter... Ford getting it right there.)
Finally, what is the cost difference on the purchase price for a diesel vs a V10? Compare the V10 and diesel mileage, fuel costs, oil changes, and if the diesel comes out ahead, figure out how many miles you will have to drive to make up for the higher purchase price.
Since I am actually moving "down" into a V10 from a diesel I have some experience with both. Can't beat a diesel when you put a load on the truck, but you have to look at a lot of factors.
As a salesman once told me... "with a diesel you are buying a piece of equipment".
#14
Hi Kevin,
Thank-you for your insight, this excursion will be my daily driver so yes it is going to be a shop hopper of sorts, where I live there are alot of backroads that no-one watches where you can do about 55 and its alot of uphill downhill, but then on weekends me and friends do alot of trips upto the poconos about a 3 hour drive each way, since we have season passes the biggest cost is getting up there in our little P.O.S. equinox, refilling the tank about 3 times back and forth 1 1/2 up 1 1/2 back its rediculous for a car that small. But the diesel around here is about 15 cents more per gallon, which compared with the incredible mileage gains definitely outweighs the cost of running our equinox. I appreciate your concern and I do take it into consideration, but I feel with a truck that is getting anywhere from 12 City to 20+ Hwy mpg I'll be doing a lot more long-range drives and still doing shop hopping but trying to give the engine a steady load as opposed to idling constantly at stop lights. If I can find a 7.3L for close to trade in value then I think that is still what I'll do, just have to be patient....
Thanks again
Thank-you for your insight, this excursion will be my daily driver so yes it is going to be a shop hopper of sorts, where I live there are alot of backroads that no-one watches where you can do about 55 and its alot of uphill downhill, but then on weekends me and friends do alot of trips upto the poconos about a 3 hour drive each way, since we have season passes the biggest cost is getting up there in our little P.O.S. equinox, refilling the tank about 3 times back and forth 1 1/2 up 1 1/2 back its rediculous for a car that small. But the diesel around here is about 15 cents more per gallon, which compared with the incredible mileage gains definitely outweighs the cost of running our equinox. I appreciate your concern and I do take it into consideration, but I feel with a truck that is getting anywhere from 12 City to 20+ Hwy mpg I'll be doing a lot more long-range drives and still doing shop hopping but trying to give the engine a steady load as opposed to idling constantly at stop lights. If I can find a 7.3L for close to trade in value then I think that is still what I'll do, just have to be patient....
Thanks again
#15
Jitterbug, whats your location? Sounds like we are in the same neck of the woods with the Poconos a 3hr drive.
I know you have your heart set on a diesel and a few of these nice folks here have tried to make sure you understand some of the costs and other needs of the 6.0 and 7.3. I too started my EX search looking for an oil burner. But after much, much reading, research, discussion, test drives and thought I decided a V-10 would be a better match for our needs and budget. I have not regretted this decision once.
I log EVERY mile and gallon of gas that goes in our EX and I have yet to have a non-towing tank below 12MPG, thats a 50% increase over what you claim your Chevy is giving you now! And that's my minimum MPG for a tank, I have seen over 15MPG on mostly solo highway tanks. I too pull a boat, a 23 SeaRay cuddy cabin with a 5.7 Mercriuser I/O that most likely outweighs your Trophy. The EX drives no differently with the boat in tow, almost don't know it's there. We also pull a heavy 28' ToyHauler, between 9k -10.5k lbs depending on what toys are loaded. Our V-10 EX has pulled this TH all around PA, up to Maine, down to Carleton SC and this past April back down to NC with 7 adult sized people on board without complaint. Heck, we even used it to pull some stumps out of the ground! No problems!
The point I'm trying to make is that the less expensive V-10 can and will do everything you want to do with it. I'm NOT anti-diesel, I still dig em! And they do get slightly better MPGs unloaded and even a little better when pulling. And once properly prepared a tuner will get you much more than any V-10 tuner will. It's just that those benifits come with a price.
You are a young guy and it sounds like you want to get a great truck, the other posters and I are just trying to make sure you have plenty of information gathered from our experiences to help you make an educated choice. There is no right or wrong, but there is a choice to be made. I know you like the diesel, I'm just sharing my gasser experience with you.
I know you have your heart set on a diesel and a few of these nice folks here have tried to make sure you understand some of the costs and other needs of the 6.0 and 7.3. I too started my EX search looking for an oil burner. But after much, much reading, research, discussion, test drives and thought I decided a V-10 would be a better match for our needs and budget. I have not regretted this decision once.
I log EVERY mile and gallon of gas that goes in our EX and I have yet to have a non-towing tank below 12MPG, thats a 50% increase over what you claim your Chevy is giving you now! And that's my minimum MPG for a tank, I have seen over 15MPG on mostly solo highway tanks. I too pull a boat, a 23 SeaRay cuddy cabin with a 5.7 Mercriuser I/O that most likely outweighs your Trophy. The EX drives no differently with the boat in tow, almost don't know it's there. We also pull a heavy 28' ToyHauler, between 9k -10.5k lbs depending on what toys are loaded. Our V-10 EX has pulled this TH all around PA, up to Maine, down to Carleton SC and this past April back down to NC with 7 adult sized people on board without complaint. Heck, we even used it to pull some stumps out of the ground! No problems!
The point I'm trying to make is that the less expensive V-10 can and will do everything you want to do with it. I'm NOT anti-diesel, I still dig em! And they do get slightly better MPGs unloaded and even a little better when pulling. And once properly prepared a tuner will get you much more than any V-10 tuner will. It's just that those benifits come with a price.
You are a young guy and it sounds like you want to get a great truck, the other posters and I are just trying to make sure you have plenty of information gathered from our experiences to help you make an educated choice. There is no right or wrong, but there is a choice to be made. I know you like the diesel, I'm just sharing my gasser experience with you.