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  #1  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:01 PM
BigAKTruck BigAKTruck is offline
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Questions about my 58 F600

Hi everyone,

I picked up this old workhorse a year ago and have been fixing it up. It has the original 292 Y-Block in it. I mostly use it to haul wood and dirt and it is the best work truck I've ever owned. I just had a few questions so I don't blow this poor truck up.

What Engine oil should I put in it?
What Transmission Oil should I use and should I change it?

I talked to a guy around here who runs a bunch of really old trucks and he recommended I use the delo 400 40w oil. His reasoning is that since the engine has never been rebuilt, if I put a modern variable weight detergent oil in there it will clean out the deposits and make it run worse. He also recommended that I add a quart of oil for every 10 gallons of gas I put in to protect the valves.

Thank you for all the help.

Bonus question - How would I go about replacing the generator with an alternator?
Super Bonus question - What should I do about the breaks because with a full load going down hill everyone had better get out of the way!
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:45 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Welcome to FTE!

We had a '58 F600 on the farm.

Use the 30w or 40w (depending on temps) non-detergent oil. Oil in the gas as a lead substitute would not be my choice, but it may be cheaper and it may work as well as the lead substitutes you can buy.

As for gear oil, I think you want a GL 4 gear oil, 90w or 85w-90 depending on temps. OEM spec might have been 50w but my dad used the 90w stuff. (Washington State, so no sub-zero jazz.)

As for brakes, post your vin and data plate info so we can find out what axles you have. There are several brake sizes for these, depending on the axle.

Ours liked to poop out the rear wheel cylinders. It sat a lot, which is an invitation to water build up, rusted wheel cylinders and seal failure. AFAIK, the brake parts are available, but we have to know the sizes etc first.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:31 AM
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1958 F600: The front brakes are 14" x 2 1/2" (same 1957/63 F600) / The rear brakes are 15" x 4" (same 1957/59 F600).

BigAKTruck: Welcome to FTE / Where in AK are you located?
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:00 PM
BigAKTruck BigAKTruck is offline
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Here is the info off of the data plate
*F60L7K16207 / 17000 / 172 / 153 / 4100
4SPD /6.33 8.81HD / R / 14C4415
53-0046

Thanks for the info on the brakes. I've read about people changing out the front brakes on these older trucks for disk brakes. Is that something I should look into or just fix up the current brakes?

I'm currently up in beautiful Fairbanks, AK. Summer is coming and the roads finally cleared up enough for me to start driving this old beast again. Unfortunately, I can't drive it today because it is supposed to snow again.

Living in Fairbanks makes getting parts interesting. My local NAPA store does a good job of helping me out but remind me to tell you about the ordeal it was getting tires for this thing.

Thanks for all the help.

BigAKTruck
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:54 PM
awhtx awhtx is offline
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I bought a non-running 1958 F600 with the 292, 5 speed and Eaton 2 speed (6.33/8.81) rear axle 2.5 years ago. The engine was not running because half of the pushrods were bent, broken and laying in the lifter valley. The Y-block engines have oil passageways from the camshaft through the block and into the head and up through the rocker stands into the rocker arm shafts. Back when non-detergent oils were in use these oil passageways would become clogged with sludge and the rocker arms would gall on the rocker shafts. I had to buy a complete set of good used shafts, rockers and pushrods to get my engine running. I still didn't have any oil going to the right side so I had to look on Fleabay and find an NOS external rocker oiling kit which consists of some tubing and hollow rocker shaft mounting studs to bypass the internal oiling system. If I were you I'd pull the rocker covers and see if you actually have any oil getting to the rocker arms. And I would not even consider using non-detergent oil. Go to Y-Blocksforever
and read all about it.
Once I got the engine running I went to work on the brakes. $850 later I had working brakes. The hydrovac power booster under the cab had to be rebuilt, the rear brake linings had to be replaced and all 4 rear wheel cylinders were pitted so I had them sleeved with stainless steel sleeves.
You can replace the generator with a modern internally regulated alternator. If you google "replace generator with alternator" I'm sure you'll find 1000's of ways to do it.
Good luck!
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAKTruck View Post
Here is the info off of the Rating Plate:

F60L7K16207 / 17000 / 172 / 153 / 4100 / 4SPD / 6.33 8.81HD / R / 14C4415 / 53-0046

Thanks for the info on the brakes. I've read about people changing out the front brakes on these older trucks for disk brakes. Is that something I should look into or just fix up the current brakes?

I'm currently up in beautiful Fairbanks, AK. Summer is coming and the roads finally cleared up enough for me to start driving this old beast again. Unfortunately, I can't drive it today because it is supposed to snow again.

Living in Fairbanks makes getting parts interesting. My local NAPA store does a good job of helping me out but remind me to tell you about the ordeal it was getting tires for this thing.
The brake info is correct, including 1957 .. which your truck is. It's not a 1958.

ID what the codes with refer to. I cannot find listings for them.

I think you typed the codes out of sequence, as they don't match the sequence as shown on the 1957 Rating Plate facsimile in the 1957/63 Ford truck parts catalog.

F60 = F600.

L = 272 2V Heavy Duty.

7 = 1957.

K = Kansas City MO Assembly Plant.

16207 = 1957 Numerical Sequence of Assembly, the trucks specific serial number.

17,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.

172" Wheelbase.

153 net HP @ 4,100 RPM

4 SPD = Borg Warner T-98.

6.33/8.81 HD = Eaton Two Speed Rear Axle.

14C4415: 14C = Assembled March 14, 1957 / 4415 = Production number.

We'll be in the Anchorage area May 18-22, but I don't know if we'll make it to Fairbanks this year. We were there 9/2004, it was colder than a witch's tit.

T'was not the time to tour Denali, that's for damn sure, especially in a freezing NPS bus.

If you need any welding done, you can whiz down the Richardson Hwy to North Pole to Hector's Welding. My 'ol pal Ken can fix you right up and he's an FTE member.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:35 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhtx View Post
I bought a non-running 1958 F600 with the 292, 5 speed and Eaton 2 speed (6.33/8.81) rear axle 2.5 years ago. The engine was not running because half of the pushrods were bent, broken and laying in the lifter valley. The Y-block engines have oil passageways from the camshaft through the block and into the head and up through the rocker stands into the rocker arm shafts. Back when non-detergent oils were in use these oil passageways would become clogged with sludge and the rocker arms would gall on the rocker shafts. I had to buy a complete set of good used shafts, rockers and pushrods to get my engine running. I still didn't have any oil going to the right side so I had to look on Fleabay and find an NOS external rocker oiling kit which consists of some tubing and hollow rocker shaft mounting studs to bypass the internal oiling system. If I were you I'd pull the rocker covers and see if you actually have any oil getting to the rocker arms. And I would not even consider using non-detergent oil. Go to Y-Blocksforever
and read all about it.
Once I got the engine running I went to work on the brakes. $850 later I had working brakes. The hydrovac power booster under the cab had to be rebuilt, the rear brake linings had to be replaced and all 4 rear wheel cylinders were pitted so I had them sleeved with stainless steel sleeves.
You can replace the generator with a modern internally regulated alternator. If you google "replace generator with alternator" I'm sure you'll find 1000's of ways to do it.
Good luck!
Y-block oiling issues are well known, although I thought later 292s were less prone to them. I suggested he stick with non-detergent because, afaik, no one knows what have been running in his engine. If it's been run on non-detergent oil for years and he puts detergent in there, what will be the result? Maybe the OP can figure if it's been run with detergent or ND oil.

Good idea on the brakes, too bad my dad couldn't have found SS sleeves for the brakes.

Better idea on pulling the rocker covers.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:33 AM
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I made my own over head oilier system for the rockers on my 55. It cost less than $10.00. I installed it in 1999 and it is still working today.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:25 AM
BigAKTruck BigAKTruck is offline
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Thanks for the info NumberDummy. I wasn't too surprised to find out I had the year wrong. After this long whats a year or two right? I hope you enjoy your trip up to Alaska. I love it so much up here I doubt I will ever leave.

The 'R' was for the color code and I can't remember what that last set was for.

Unless someone has a fancy way of determining if detergent or ND oil was in the engine I'm just going to assume every type of oil known to man has been put in there.

Below is an image of the truck. I had just brought it home. You can't see it in this picture but there are 5 bullet holes in the windshield that are filled with silicone.
Click the image to open in full size.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:19 AM
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R = Vermillion Red.

1957's had single headlamps, 1958/60's had dual headlamps.

On an old engine, I would not suggest using a detergent oil as it will loosen up all the crap, which may plug up the oil passage holes.

Which oil filter does it have, the old by-pass cannister type that uses a 'sock' oil filter, or the full flow spin-on filter?

The spin on filter was introduced in 1957, but was optional. The spin-on adapter is still available, uses the Motorcraft F1-1A filter.
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2012, 09:36 PM
BigAKTruck BigAKTruck is offline
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I'm lucky and it has the spin on filter. Now I just need to find out if the engine really is a 292 or if it is the 272. I would go look at the casting numbers but it is raining like crazy today.

My exhaust manifold is cracked and I haven't had much luck finding another one. I might hit up your buddy Ken to weld the cracks.

I managed to find some radial tires and wheels in Illinois. I can't recommend Tire management inc. in Aurora, IL enough. A nice lady named Shannon was extremely helpful in finding these wheels for me. I will be so happy to have the widowmakers off this truck. I lucked out since my wife works for an air cargo company. They currently have a DC-9 down in Kansas City for overhaul so I just had the wheels shipped there and they are coming up here for free.

Once all that is done I just need to figure out what is wrong with the driveline and rebuild the rear end. The two speed rear end doesn't work right now and is stuck in low. Of course I'm glad it is stuck in low rather than high. Right now when I am going down hill with a load the driveline makes a godawful sound like it is going to tear itself apart so I just put it in neutral and hope my breaks don't go out.

I will keep everyone updated as I restore this truck and thank you for all your help so far.

BigAKTruck
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:51 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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Two speed overload:

Shifting, including Eaton video:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...-problems.html

Tech info in post two, note the Dana pdf link:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...peed-axle.html
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAKTruck View Post
I'm lucky and it has the spin on filter. Now I just need to find out if the engine really is a 292 or if it is the 272. I would go look at the casting numbers but it is raining like crazy today.
Casting numbers are foundry marks, cannot be cross referenced to Ford part numbers.

My exhaust manifold is cracked and I haven't had much luck finding another one. I might hit up your buddy Ken to weld the cracks.
Which manifold is cracked, right or left? It may be possible to find a NOS original. I know of a local truck wrecking yard that has used manifolds.

Welding exhaust manifolds is a study in futility, because once they get red hot, the welded crack usually opens up again.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:36 AM
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85e150six4mtod Thank you for the info on the 2 speed axle. I feel like I have an idea of what is going on now. The vacuum line isn't attached so no wonder it is stuck in low.

NumberDummy I had found this Y-Block Casting Numbers
a few days ago and was hoping the casting numbers would match. I've tried to find a NOS manifold without much luck. The right one is the worst off but they are both cracked. I plan on hitting up the junkyards this week. I'm sure they will have some. I've also considered getting headers or the Ram Horn manifolds but I don't really feel like running dual exhaust at this point. Decisions decisions.

Thanks for all your help
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:53 PM
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Our '58 was an electric shift. The '48s my dad had were vacuum shift.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:53 PM
 
 
 
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