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  #31  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81beast View Post
I doubt that a 5.0 Ecoboost at 500hp/580TQ in a SD platform would get much better mileage than the 6.2 if it was made available.
Fully loaded, working at peak output, that's true. Pushing a truck down the highway unloaded though, 5.0 liters will get better mileage than 6.2. Or SHOULD - back in the days when the 2-valve 5.4 and V10 Superduties were just showing up, talk here at FTE showed they got about the same MPGs, or slightly better for the 5.4 unloaded, slightly worse for the 5.4 when loaded.

But then, direction injection might improve things a bit too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
A bit backwards there, Art.

HP = (Torque x RPM)/5252
Not backwards at all, we're both saying the same thing

If I'm backwards, so are you
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  #32  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:29 AM
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Personally, I would like to see a 6.2L Ecoboost with a milder profile for better long-term reliability. I would also like for the engine to have forged internals.

In short, I would like to see an Ecoboost "gas" engine that can perform great with OEM programming but can be upgraded with an aftermarket tuner for outrageous HP/TQ like the diesel engines.
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  #33  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furian View Post
Personally, I would like to see a 6.2L Ecoboost with a milder profile for better long-term reliability. I would also like for the engine to have forged internals.

In short, I would like to see an Ecoboost "gas" engine that can perform great with OEM programming but can be upgraded with an aftermarket tuner for outrageous HP/TQ like the diesel engines.
So what you're saying is that you'd rather have it tuned more conservative?

The speculation seems to surround the 5.0, as apparently it has provisions in the casting for a DI system, the 6.2 does not. The 3.5 ecoboost seems do be doing pretty good in the f150's, plus they will have even more knowledge from the current ecoboost, for the next one.

I don't think you'd gain anything having a larger displacement engine than the 5.0, turned into an ecoboost style motor. An ecoboost 5.0 could potentially get tuned really hot also.

I think the only reason we don't already see it, is that they would sell so many of them, that diesel sales could fall sharply.
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  #34  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
So what you're saying is that you'd rather have it tuned more conservative?

The speculation seems to surround the 5.0, as apparently it has provisions in the casting for a DI system, the 6.2 does not. The 3.5 ecoboost seems do be doing pretty good in the f150's, plus they will have even more knowledge from the current ecoboost, for the next one.

I don't think you'd gain anything having a larger displacement engine than the 5.0, turned into an ecoboost style motor. An ecoboost 5.0 could potentially get tuned really hot also.

I think the only reason we don't already see it, is that they would sell so many of them, that diesel sales could fall sharply.
Yes. Ford needs to look at the big picture... having more desirable engine options for their customers only increases overall sales. Also, having a powerful and reliable Ecoboost engine reduces warranty repairs, which adds to the bottom line.
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  #35  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
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Stranger things have happened.

Power-wise the 3.5L EB would do just great in a Super Duty. It handily outclasses the 6.8L V10 in a few departments IMHO, but of course the question is long term durability at those power levels. Conventional wisdom dictates that small engines making lots of power won't last long at high power levels, but these EB engines are going to be worked hard in F150s, and obviously Ford is confident enough to warrant them in heavy towing applications.

Unfortunately the proof will be in long term longevity after a few years. Once we see some heavily worked EB F150s get a couple hundred thousand miles on them with minimal issues I'll start craving one in a SD. But an expen$ive DI and twin turbo system seems to be a liability to me as the truck gets older.
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  #36  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
EB engines are going to be worked hard in F150s, and obviously Ford is confident enough to warrant them in heavy towing applications.
The 3.5 EB's in the f150 seem to be fairing VERY well. Even the guy's towing with them seem to like them, although the mileage can fall off at high engine outputs.

A 5.0 EB in a super duty would be very similar, I imagine. Although theoretically, you should be able to load it more than the 3.5 without sacrificing mileage.
For someone who has a truck and uses it as a daily driver, and hauls occasionally, this setup would be very hard to beat.

Theres a few guys that whine about the 3.5 EB towing MPG's, but I'm sure if you averaged it all with you're daily driving, the EB kick serious **** in the mileage department, on average.
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  #37  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:42 AM
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I'd love to see the 5.0 Ecoboost go in the SD line. I'd buy a 550 with that in a heartbeat. City mileage would be much better the the 09/11 V10's I'm using now. The 6.2 is not the most efficient engine, and it would be worse with the turbos. 5.0 Eco would have plenty of torque for towing.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
Stranger things have happened.

Power-wise the 3.5L EB would do just great in a Super Duty. It handily outclasses the 6.8L V10 in a few departments IMHO, but of course the question is long term durability at those power levels. Conventional wisdom dictates that small engines making lots of power won't last long at high power levels, but these EB engines are going to be worked hard in F150s, and obviously Ford is confident enough to warrant them in heavy towing applications.

Unfortunately the proof will be in long term longevity after a few years. Once we see some heavily worked EB F150s get a couple hundred thousand miles on them with minimal issues I'll start craving one in a SD. But an expen$ive DI and twin turbo system seems to be a liability to me as the truck gets older.
3.5 Eco does not have enough torque to replace the V10 in the 450/550's.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSchicago2 View Post
3.5 Eco does not have enough torque to replace the V10 in the 450/550's.
A 5.0 ecoboost sure would !!!!!!
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSchicago2 View Post
3.5 Eco does not have enough torque to replace the V10 in the 450/550's.
I disagree. With the short first gear in the 6R140 the EB would be able to put more power to the ground at virtually any speed. If you look at the torque comparison that Ford released you'll see that there EB V6 puts out more torque than the 6.2l can at every point below 4,000 RPMs. Peak engine torque is meaningless unless you are on an engine dyno; power to the ground is what matters.
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  #41  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:52 AM
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I reviewed the HP/TQ for the various engines for the 2012 F150. The 3.5L Ecoboost was the most efficient engine in both HP and TQ. Here are the rankings:

HP Rankings - 3.5L Ecoboost was Ranked #1

RankingEngineHPHP/L
13.5365104
23.730282
35.036072
46.241166


TQ Rankings - 3.5L Ecoboost was Ranked #1

RankingEngineTQTQ/L
13.5420120
25.038076
33.727875
46.243470


Based on the actual values above, a 5.0L Ecoboost should produce the following HP and TQ:

HP = 520
TQ = 600

To my knowledge, Ford has never produced a gas engine for a truck with that kind of HP/TQ.
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  #42  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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Also note that the 6.2L engine above ranked LAST in efficiency. There is a lot more room for improvement and you can imagine the HP/TQ numbers for a 6.2L Ecoboost engine:

HP = 645
TQ = 744

Ford could eliminate the 6.7L diesel engine...
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  #43  
Old 04-24-2012, 11:03 AM
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I would love to see fuel-consumption mapped in with torque, but that might be some deep dark secret
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I disagree. With the short first gear in the 6R140 the EB would be able to put more power to the ground at virtually any speed. If you look at the torque comparison that Ford released you'll see that there EB V6 puts out more torque than the 6.2l can at every point below 4,000 RPMs. Peak engine torque is meaningless unless you are on an engine dyno; power to the ground is what matters.
Torque in first gear is useless when you need it most, which is on the highway. Comparing the 3.5 to a 6.2 for my purposes doesn't help either. The 6.2 is not offered in the 450/550's because of the lack of torque.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSchicago2 View Post
Torque in first gear is useless when you need it most, which is on the highway. Comparing the 3.5 to a 6.2 for my purposes doesn't help either. The 6.2 is not offered in the 450/550's because of the lack of torque.
The 3.5 ecoboost TQ curve is very impressive, in comparison to any of the gas engines.

The V10 might have more TQ, but the ecoboost puts it down evenly.

In fact, the ecoboost makes better TQ than the 6.2, till after 4000, which really who's going to really be towing at over 4000 RPM's anyways?
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