That's not what "numbers matching" means. If you MUST have the "correct" casting code, I hope it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but it has NO VALUE other than that.

"Numbers matching" is primarily a GM thing. (very, very limited in Fords, think SCJ 428s, maybe). It's where the VIN and engine numbers match, so you can tell if it's an original 427 in a Corvette etc.

 

The date code is important to some people. Shows that all era correct parts were used. Especially getting into the big-block Mustangs and Torinos, that's one of the questions asked. If you were building to factory spec, you are only allowed something like three months before and after the build date on the vehicle.


Quick question, what's wrong with the engine that's in the truck?

 

Agreed. And it is obviously important to Shaun, which is his choice so I support him.

 

I am trying to zero in on what he wants myself. Apparently it has to be a 351m/400 block with certain numbers on it, you would think because he is restoring the truck to the nth degree. But then I am hearing about modifying the engine for more horsepower.

So will you have a "original" type engine block, with different pistons ported heads, high lift cam, and have the original Ford 2bbl intake and carb sitting on top of it so it will be original? I do not think that will work very well.

So you are probably going to have this thing hopped up, with a aftermarket intake(Ford didn't make a 4bbl intake for this engine) and aftermarket 4bbl carb, headers, chrome aircleaner, no smog or emissions stuff?

Yes I am being a little cynical, but really you can build your truck how you want it, it's just some things make sense and some don't. If you love the 351m/400, that's fine, but I would be practical about it also.

 

"Numbers matching" went out the window long ago. It was a 2wd with 300 when built, and planned to be 4wd with a 400 when done.

With a ford, the actual factory engine could have been cast 1-2 years prior to the build date of the vehicle, so it's not that unusual to find a casting date that is more than 6 months before the vehicle build date.

 

In regards to number matching, there's this truck: Matt Garrett - 1984 Ford F250
It has a 1970 460 in it, and its an 84 truck. I realize this is an extreme example.

But I pose a question: What is Shaun's meaning of 'numbers matching'? An 80 casted block? Or perhaps a 400 from the late 70's?

 

Oh, Gawd, not that thing again.

No offense, but that's been on this board for years. It was for sale on eBay for at least 2 years in a row IIRC.

I think what Shaun wants is to get a D7TE truck block 400 that was built after a certain date (at least from one of the 3 plants that produced them). I don't blame him, that's what I got, too.

This block has got reinforced main bearing areas whereas the car block doesn't.

I may be wrong and he'll correct me if I am, but I believe the "numbers matching" euphemism was just that - a fast way of describing what he wants.

 

I posted that truck because its "original", thats all.

If I didnt have to change a lot on my truck, I'd want to put a 400 in my truck. It sounds like a pretty good engine.

And, if it matters at all, I know of two 400's up by me in 78/79 trucks.

 

thats not to hard, put 36 inch tires, 3.54 gears, and a C6 trans, and there ya go!

 

It's cool, don't worry about it.

Although, I don't remember lots being original on it...?

IIRC the lift, chrome engine cosmetics, possibly ignition, may have had some sort o child seat restraints added, I don't remember for certain.

It certainly looks good but I think he wanted around $20k for it.

The 400 is the V8 version of the 300 cid. 6-banger.

 

BINGO!

Maybe I'm not being very clear, or maybe I'm just different. I'm not really sure why you guys are having such a hard time understanding where I'm coming from, but I'll try to clear it up.

1977-1982 trucks with 351M/400's came with D7TE blocks. Cars came with D5AE or D8AE blocks, which were never offered on F-Series trucks or Broncos.

Yea, my truck rolled off the assembly line as a 300 I6 4x2 truck. However, I still want this truck to resemble a stock truck that rolled off the assembly line in 1980. My Ranger Lariat trim level, my D44 front axle, my Trailer Special package, my black interior, and nearly all of my other modifications were all offered on F-Series trucks in 1980. The only things on my truck that were not offered on F-Series trucks in 1980 are the wheels, the tires, and the 1982-1986 top pull door locks. No, my truck won't be numbers matching according to the old definition, but the block will be correct for the truck, at least according to Ford. This is where the term numbers matching comes into play. If I put a D5AE or D8AE block in my truck, it would be the incorrect block for the truck, according to Ford. A D5AE or D8AE block would work just fine in my truck, and some of you would be fine with that, but I personally want to keep a correct D7TE block in my truck.

In simpler terms I hope you all can understand:

I wasn't alive when these trucks were brand new, and I never got a chance to special order my own 1980 F150. So what I'm doing now is taking a truck that has the color combo I like, and adding all the options I would have checked off back in 1980 if I had ordered this truck myself. If I were to check off 351M/400 for the engine choice, guess which engine block would come in my truck? A D7TE block. Not a D5AE or a D8AE block. THIS is why I want a D7TE block.

I'm not going for a Concours d'Elegance restoration, I'm building a driver, that resembles a factory original truck. I'm building a clone, much like a Shelby Mustang clone.

 

................ I'm building a clone, much like a Shelby Mustang clone.[/quote]


Not exactly.... If you don't see the difference between a Shelby Mustang and an "original" 351m/400 equipped PU truck, good luck to you..

Here--box stock, the Mustang has collector value. As a clone of a highly collectable and valuable vehicle, it has more value, although to a smaller group of buyers.

A PU of your vintage has about the same value regardless of what version of the OEM engines are in it. The number of people who would value it higher because of the D7.. coded block is approximately ONE.

Your truck, time and money. Good luck with it.

 

He's not building an "original" or "factory" M-block, but, rather, one that more closely resembles what the engine was originally designed to be before it was de-tuned by the factory for EPA-mandated reasons.

I did this same thing with my engine.

 

Thank you, Captain Serious. My truck is an F150 Ranger Lariat 4x4 400 clone. It's obviously not a Mustang, and for you to even waste your time trying to infer that's what I meant shows that you have nothing better to do than spend your Sunday night trolling an internet forum.

If you truly know as much as you seem to think, you would realize that the greatest collector value is beheld by the man that builds his vehicle. No price could ever be put on the vehicle that a man pours his sweat, blood, and money into.

I don't ever plan on selling this truck, so I could care less about what you or anyone else thinks my truck will be worth in the future. The value is in how I see my truck, not in how you see it.

I'm not really sure why you assume that F-Series trucks won't gain collector value some day. I'm sure that people didn't think that 1966-1970 Dodge Chargers would have any collector value, but that sure isn't the case now. If you have a time machine that can see into the future, please let me take a ride, I'd love to see where your negative Nancy life takes you. Obviously, it hasn't taken you very far.

BTW, please learn how to properly quote, your broken quotes are getting out of hand.

 

Thanks for the negative reps. I hope your dreams come true, and that someday your F150 clone is worth tens of thousands of dollars.

You likened your truck to a Shelby clone, not me.

Where did I improperly quote you? I used a partial quote, not out of context and not changing the meaning of your comment about making a clone.

All in all, I think you and the stock 400 are a good match.

Good luck with it.