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  #31  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:00 AM
rikosintie rikosintie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post
Some topics to ponder when considering upgrading braking in general are:

Do you have enough brakes to lock all 4 tires?
Once you have enough brakes to lock all 4 tires (or, preferably, threshold brake right before the point of lock up), it's impossible to brake any harder than that. At that point you are limited by traction, not by brakes. So if one has enough brakes to lock all 4 tires, then upgrading brakes won't help, only improving traction e.g. by upgrading tires will help.
Not to be an *** but are you kidding me? Have you ever driven a lifted Ex with 35's or larger? You couldn't lock up all 4 tires if you put a hydraulic cylinder on the brake pedal and used enough force to bend it. And we have ABS, so even if you had enough brake power to lock them on dry pavement the ABS would kick in. I want those calipers and I don't consider them overkill. If I could afford it I would go with AP brakes with 14" rotors.

Not to mention I tow 99% of the time and have 5600lbs on the rear axle with 12.5" wide tires. I doubt that even if SSBC made rear calipers that they could lock up a 12.5" wide tire with 2800lbs on it.
Michael
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  #32  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACERX7775 View Post
These calipers are designed for stock sized rotors.


part number for the calipers I think is the A193, then I had the optional red powdercoating. I got them from AJUSA.COM. The list price is like $1500? I paid $894. Delivered. Dont forget, thats just for 2 calipers only. Plus $145 for the Russell braided brake line kit=5 lines.
I just checked the part # on SSBC's website and the correct part# is A193-1, the A193 is for 6-lugs (F-150) on their website.


These look so good and sound like they perform well. Based on the pictures and from your personal experience would you say that those calipers along with OEM size cryo-rotors that this would fit in a 17" wheel?

Once I get new tires I'm hopefully going to get new rims however I only want to go up to 17's and don't want to have to go any bigger based on my budget.

Again, these look and sound great, thanks for the info.
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  #33  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasteranger View Post
I need new pads and I've got some pretty bad shaking while braking, its been mild until yesterday when I came down an 11 mile 12% grade... even the torqshift couldn't reign back my 10k trailer and I was shaking from my teeth to my man ***** by the time I got to the bottom.

I've heard that porterfield R4's are rotor eaters, from autocross friends. I didn't even know they made them for the excursion. I wonder, if the hummer pads are that much bigger, if someone with access to a CNC machine could start making brackets just to run the hummer calipers on stock rotors. That would be a big step up and probably a lot cheaper than aftermarket calipers.

Those brakes sure are pretty but I'll never be able to justify that kind of expense on my hauler.
I strongly recommend EBC Yellowstuff pads front and rear and new, plain 'ole rotors. I use Wagner rotors from O'Riellys 'cause they have a lifetime warranty - yes, warranty covers warping. Don't worry though, with GOOD brake pads - they won't warp. I have worn out a set of EBC Greenstuff pads on the X and prefer the braking power of the Yellowstuff I'm running now. I also have these pads on my dually - both truck tow heavy and I live in the mountains. The X with Toy Hauler in my sig is 22k lbs GCW and I have towed it more than 15k miles in the last year...

Racer, I ran Performance Friction pads for awhile and think they were the absolute WORST pads I've had on the truck. Stopping power was just WEAK and they warped a couple sets of rotors (overheated). I can stop MUCH more aggressively with these pads and haven't warped a rotor yet. I have beat the crap out of them driving like an idiot over the mountain (switchbacks and slowing from 50mph to 20mph on downhill curves). They are also very resistant to brake fade!! I've never heard of the Porterfields, anxious to see how they hold up!

With 33" tires (325/60/18's or 285/75/16's) I can lock up all 4 tires on the X and all 6 tires (255/85/16's - 33" tall) on the dually (the ABS's are disabled). I could never dream of that before these pads.

Btw, is it just me or does it just seem wrong that the H2 has bigger brake pads than an EXCURSION or F350??
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2012, 08:00 AM
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Will these ssbc calipers fit under a stock 16" excursion wheel ?

Joe
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post
Some topics to ponder when considering upgrading braking in general are:

Do you have enough brakes to lock all 4 tires?
Once you have enough brakes to lock all 4 tires (or, preferably, threshold brake right before the point of lock up), it's impossible to brake any harder than that. At that point you are limited by traction, not by brakes. So if one has enough brakes to lock all 4 tires, then upgrading brakes won't help, only improving traction e.g. by upgrading tires will help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
Not to be an *** but are you kidding me? Have you ever driven a lifted Ex with 35's or larger? You couldn't lock up all 4 tires if you put a hydraulic cylinder on the brake pedal and used enough force to bend it. And we have ABS, so even if you had enough brake power to lock them on dry pavement the ABS would kick in. I want those calipers and I don't consider them overkill. If I could afford it I would go with AP brakes with 14" rotors.

Not to mention I tow 99% of the time and have 5600lbs on the rear axle with 12.5" wide tires. I doubt that even if SSBC made rear calipers that they could lock up a 12.5" wide tire with 2800lbs on it.
Michael
Hi Michael,

I drive an '00 Excursion with 7.3L PSD, with Goodyear Wrangler radials in a 37x12.50x16.5 size (military surplus takeoffs from the military Hummer).

In general, I have no problem locking all 4 tires with the stock Excursion brakes on asphalt. I'm pretty sure my X has stock calipers, but I don't know what rotors & pads are on it though, as I haven't had to replace them yet since the previous owner. In my case, though, the tires are probably my limiting factor, as being a tire designed primarily for offroad use with large voids, it's obviously not designed for maximum traction on a paved surface. A tire like an all terrain or LT or street tread pattern would be better for traction on a paved surface than the tires that I have, and at that point the brakes may indeed become the limiting factor.

For reference, I used to own a '99 3/4 ton big block 454 Suburban 4x4 before the X, and the X brakes are so much better in terms of stopping power, pedal firmness & ability to modulate easily. Even though I replaced both front calipers, and put cryo rotors & Hawks on the Suburban, which improved the braking a lot, the brake pedal on the Suburban always felt mushy & difficult to modulate. Eventually I learned to trust that the brakes on the Suburban did in fact work, though not wonderfully, and that the brake pedal feel was just rubbish.

In contrast, I find the X brakes a startling upgrade compared to the Suburban, and very easy to modulate. I can actually threshold brake in the X, and even do a small chirp tire lockup for effect if I'm feeling mischievous.

I have only had 2 occasions of mushy pedal feel & brake fade in my X. One was braking very deep into a highway offramp exit from a high rate of speed. I was in a rush to get somewhere & outbraked a slower car that was about to take the same offramp exit. The other was also on the highway where I came through a tunnel around a blind corner to find traffic at a complete standstill, 'cos a car had spun in the slightly damp conditions & gone down an embankment. In both occasions I was able to get the X successfully stopped in time safely, but experienced definite brake fade & mushy pedal feel, which wasn't confidence inspiring. I think in the 1st instance, I might have at least partially boiled the brake fluid; after a brake fluid flush and fill with fresh fluid braking seemed fine & normal. In the 2nd instance, which occurred fairly recently, I think it's because I am starting to run low on pad life left, so the pad has less ability to dissipate heat under high load situations, which I plan to rectify with new pads soon.

Anyway, my rear brake pads are nearly worn down now (need to check the fronts, but I suspect the same may be the case for them), so need to be replaced soon. I just ordered Hawk LTS replacement pads (Light Truck & SUV, green box, 'Y' compound). Hawk rates them at the same stopping power and rotor & pad wear as the SuperDuty severe duty compound pads, but with less noise (which I care about, I'd prefer minimal squeal if possible) and less dust (which I don't particularly care about, but nice to have). Based on my research on Hawk's site, Tire Rack reviews & here on FTE, it seems the LTS compound is more ideally suited & less prone to squeal than the Super Duty pads for a daily driven X; even those used to tow since the trailer should have its own appropriate braking which shouldn't change the braking equation much. For a work truck that would be used to tow and/or haul every day and/or is heavier (like an F450/550 etc.), I think the extra temp capability & fade resistance of the Hawk Super Duty severe duty compound may be better suited, with the tradeoff of higher noise & dust.

I would like to replace both front & rear rotors with PowerSlot slotted cryo rotors when I replace the pads, but I'm short on cash right now. For the rears, I might consider just putting the pads on the current used rotors, if the rear rotors are still thick enough. I also need to look at exactly how much brake pad life is left on my front pads, but I'd really like to put fresh rotors on the front, when the time comes, just to have all fresh hardware on the front, as the front brakes do most of the work when braking.
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:08 PM
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  #37  
Old 05-24-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovestrucks View Post
I just checked the part # on SSBC's website and the correct part# is A193-1, the A193 is for 6-lugs (F-150) on their website.

These look so good and sound like they perform well. Based on the pictures and from your personal experience would you say that those calipers along with OEM size cryo-rotors that this would fit in a 17" wheel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4realestate View Post
Will these ssbc calipers fit under a stock 16" excursion wheel ?

Joe
Though I don't have the kit, so therefore don't have any personal experience & can't vouch for the accuracy, the following 2 links might help.

SSBC's own web page states "Minimum wheel size: ST", and I would assume "ST" is supposed to imply 'stock'?:
SSBC:: A193-1

This page states "Minimum Wheel Size Stock":
SSBC Quick Change Aluminum Brake Caliper Upgrade Kit A193-1
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post
Though I don't have the kit, so therefore don't have any personal experience & can't vouch for the accuracy, the following 2 links might help.

SSBC's own web page states "Minimum wheel size: ST", and I would assume "ST" is supposed to imply 'stock'?:
SSBC:: A193-1

This page states "Minimum Wheel Size Stock":
SSBC Quick Change Aluminum Brake Caliper Upgrade Kit A193-1
Thanks

Man these look so good, wish I had the cash to get them when I get my new tires
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2012, 09:40 PM
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Well it seems to be an owesome mod. But may I ask how much would it run a mod like this.
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  #40  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:27 PM
rikosintie rikosintie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post
Hi Michael,

I drive an '00 Excursion with 7.3L PSD, with Goodyear Wrangler radials in a 37x12.50x16.5 size (military surplus takeoffs from the military Hummer).

In general, I have no problem locking all 4 tires with the stock Excursion brakes on asphalt.
I am glad yours work that well. I am surprised that the ABS doesn't kick in though. When I lock mine up on dirt roads or ice the ABS kicks in quickly.

I am using an A/T tire with a lot of rubber on the ground because I drive in sand dunes where flotation is king. As I said, you couldn't lock mine up with a hydraulic cylinder on the pedal. When I first put them on and couldn't stop for crap I did the following:
Replaced the master cylinder (pre-bled it on the bench first)
adjusted the master cylinder rod as far as possible
installed speed bleeders at all four corners and bled the system.
replaced the pads with EBC green stuff pads
cleaned and lubed the pins.

Made a little difference but still no locky. So I swallowed my pride and took it to a medium duty Ford truck center. They charged me an hour of time and the mechanic went over the system and did a test drive. He concluded that the brakes worked as good as any Super Duty he had driven. He did comment that my slip yoke needed greasing

But the fact remains it sucks. I had a blow out take the electric brakes out on my toy hauler on the downside of the I8 pass out of San Diego. Luckily traffic was light and I was able to get to an off ramp safely but there is no way I could have stopped in a reasonable distance if something would have required it.

I just wish SSBC made the V8 for the rear. As I stated I tow 99% of the time and have 5600lbs on the rear and 3700lbs on the front. Do the math and you can see that big bang for the buck would be rear calipers.
Michael
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  #41  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:00 AM
xbox73 xbox73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
I am glad yours work that well. I am surprised that the ABS doesn't kick in though. When I lock mine up on dirt roads or ice the ABS kicks in quickly.
You make an interesting point. I seem to recall noticing the ABS kicking in when under braking when I was driving at a decent clip on a gravel road a while back, but not on the street. Maybe mine is disconnected, or is much less intrusive due to the increased tire size or tire compound/tread pattern? Something for me to ponder & investigate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
I am using an A/T tire with a lot of rubber on the ground because I drive in sand dunes where flotation is king. As I said, you couldn't lock mine up with a hydraulic cylinder on the pedal. When I first put them on and couldn't stop for crap I did the following:
Replaced the master cylinder (pre-bled it on the bench first)
adjusted the master cylinder rod as far as possible
installed speed bleeders at all four corners and bled the system.
replaced the pads with EBC green stuff pads
cleaned and lubed the pins.

Made a little difference but still no locky. So I swallowed my pride and took it to a medium duty Ford truck center. They charged me an hour of time and the mechanic went over the system and did a test drive. He concluded that the brakes worked as good as any Super Duty he had driven. He did comment that my slip yoke needed greasing
Sorry, I don't really have any good advice for this, other than to maybe try some more aggressive pads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
But the fact remains it sucks. I had a blow out take the electric brakes out on my toy hauler on the downside of the I8 pass out of San Diego. Luckily traffic was light and I was able to get to an off ramp safely but there is no way I could have stopped in a reasonable distance if something would have required it.
I know that downhill pass, through Alpine & from Jacumba down to Ocotillo & onwards to El Centro. That descent can be pretty steep & windy, I don't envy you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
I just wish SSBC made the V8 for the rear. As I stated I tow 99% of the time and have 5600lbs on the rear and 3700lbs on the front. Do the math and you can see that big bang for the buck would be rear calipers.
Michael
I don't understand the reasoning of this, or what you are trying to say here. Regardless of the front-rear weight distribution of the vehicle, 70-80% of the braking is still done by the front brakes. That's why nearly all vehicles have larger diameter & thicker front rotors than the rear, and the front calipers often have more and/or larger diameter pistons than the rear. As soon as braking starts, there is a dynamic weight shift towards the front of the vehicle. Despite the static vehicle weight distribution, the bang for the buck is to increase the amount of braking that can be achieved by the brakes that are used the most i.e. the front brakes.

Also, your front & rear weight numbers seem off. While I understand the V10 engine is lighter than the 7.3L PSD, the front of the X, where the engine is, before one takes the trailer into account, should still be significantly heavier than the rear. Even with, say, 1,000 lbs of downforce on the rear due to tongue weight of a 10,000 lbs trailer, the front-to-rear weight distribution should then be roughly equal (rather than the rear carrying 2,000 lbs more weight than the front). Also, your sig says you have air bags & a weight distributing hitch which would effectively shift some of the trailer weight load off the rear axle towards the front axle, so the numbers you quoted seem a little off. If those F & R axle weight numbers are indeed correct, are you sure the there is enough tension on your WD bars?
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  #42  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post

SSBC's own web page states "Minimum wheel size: ST", and I would assume "ST" is supposed to imply 'stock'?:
SSBC:: A193-1

This page states "Minimum Wheel Size Stock":
SSBC Quick Change Aluminum Brake Caliper Upgrade Kit A193-1
Yes. they will fit inside stock wheels.
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  #43  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbox73 View Post
Hi Michael,

I drive an '00 Excursion with 7.3L PSD, with Goodyear Wrangler radials in a 37x12.50x16.5 size (military surplus takeoffs from the military Hummer).

In general, I have no problem locking all 4 tires with the stock Excursion brakes on asphalt. I'm pretty sure my X has stock calipers.
HUH??? I've never been able to even come close to locking up the tires. Even now, with the brakes warmed up, it would ne nearly impossible to do it.
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  #44  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
As I said, you couldn't lock mine up with a hydraulic cylinder on the pedal.

I just wish SSBC made the V8 for the rear.
Michael

They are in the process of making a larger caliper for the rear. Just not an 8 piston. I think it's going to be a 4 piston fixed caliper similar to the front. It will be using stock rotors and bigger pads like from the newer SD trucks.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:20 AM
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Damnn those ae super sexy!!!!! They look like they cost more then the truck
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:20 AM
 
 
 
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