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Cam Phaser Lockout Installed and Running Very Quite

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  #121  
Old 08-05-2014, 11:40 AM
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120mm Jedi 120mm Jedi is offline
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interesting

Thanks Andy, I'll do some more digging around.
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  #122  
Old 08-15-2014, 04:29 PM
jgoedker jgoedker is offline
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Hi,

I noticed a lot of comments about VCT and weather it's good or bad in a F150. I agree, probably not. But you have to consider the pressure on the manufacturers to squeeze more MPG's. Every gimmick has to be looked at.

As for VCT? Back in my sprint car days which were also the early days of cam timing, a lot of guesswork was put into this subject. Yes the power was gained at high RPM's. But, we also ported the heads to the max. Low RPM operation was not even considered. Ford using VCT does allow them to gain HP while leaving port sizes relatively small and therefor not effecting low RPM performance or producing hesitations at low RPM's. With the port and timing configurations we used, the engine would just about kill below 2000 RPM due to the large ports and high airflow. My 04 F150 I feel, is a very nice balance. Hopefully it all continues to work as it should.
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  #123  
Old 01-14-2015, 09:55 AM
brentv8 brentv8 is offline
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Knocking cause and fix summary

Hi, after reading all this, I wrote up the summary below. Please shoot or add.

Cause
At low rpm's (<800) the phaser movement should be locked with a pin. It is common for this pin to break. With a warmed up engine the oil pressure at idle is too low to keep the phaser (with a broken pin) in place. It starts to "flap" around and takes the chain with it. This causes the knocking sound. When the engine is cold the pressure is higher because the oil is cold and therefore creates more pressure. Therefore when the engine is cold you wont hear knocking at idle. At higher rpm's the oil pressure is higher and keeps the phaser securely in place, hence no flapping and knocking sound.

fix
In order to prevent "flapping" a phaser lockout kit from Livernois can be installed. This kit costs USD 699,-. This kit forces the phaser in a fixed advanced position. This means the variable timing feature is completely disabled. In order to make this work without the car throwing codes and possibly go into limp mode, a ECU reprogramming is necessary. Livernois confirms that the VCT solenoids are not necessary after installing the kit. They could even be left out completely. Im still trying to figure out why they offer a kit with new OEM phasers.

Regards,

John

Last edited by brentv8; 01-14-2015 at 09:59 AM. Reason: typo
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  #124  
Old 01-15-2015, 06:20 PM
blueovalandy blueovalandy is offline
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Sounds about right.

Andy
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  #125  
Old 04-01-2015, 03:17 PM
nixby nixby is offline
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Andy,
Any new issues so far? I'm about to tackle all of the above next week on a new to me 07 screw.

I like the idea of using the metal guides instead of the plastic ones. Do you have a part number for those? I'm having trouble tracking them down. Also, are both guides (stationary side and tensioner side) metal?

Thanks for the write up.

-Nick
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  #126  
Old 04-04-2015, 10:58 AM
blueovalandy blueovalandy is offline
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Originally Posted by nixby View Post
Andy,
Any new issues so far? I'm about to tackle all of the above next week on a new to me 07 screw.

I like the idea of using the metal guides instead of the plastic ones. Do you have a part number for those? I'm having trouble tracking them down. Also, are both guides (stationary side and tensioner side) metal?

Thanks for the write up.

-Nick
No new issues. My truck has been running like a champ. I am probably around 40,000 miles since the lockouts were first installed. As for the guides, I wish they made a metal guide. To my knowledge they don't. It is the metal tensioner that I used with great success. Just get a set from a 2 valve 5.4. I just asked for a 99 f150 5.4 tensioner. Hope this helps.

Andy
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  #127  
Old 05-03-2015, 06:59 PM
shfd102chief shfd102chief is offline
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3 year lockout follow up

I just wanted to follow up after installing cam phaser lockouts in 2012. When I last posted (08/2012), I was having trouble timing the truck after the install. I solved the problem once I realized that the cams could be turned, to set the timing marks, as long as the crank stayed in place (with the timing mark at 6 o'clock). (Additionally, it's 30 links from the crank timing mark to the cam phaser timing mark any way you count it, not counting the link the crank timing mark is on.)

Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide (it turned out to be the passenger side stationary one).

When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.

After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took Andy's advice and replaced the tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150). I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since.

To date, I have 60,000 miles on the lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.

By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339

Last edited by shfd102chief; 05-03-2015 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Iron Tensioner Part numbers
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  #128  
Old 05-04-2015, 04:51 AM
blueovalandy blueovalandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shfd102chief View Post
I just wanted to follow up after installing cam phaser lockouts in 2012. When I last posted (08/2012), I was having trouble timing the truck after the install. I solved the problem once I realized that the cams could be turned, to set the timing marks, as long as the crank stayed in place (with the timing mark at 6 o'clock). (Additionally, it's 30 links from the crank timing mark to the cam phaser timing mark any way you count it, not counting the link the crank timing mark is on.)

Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide (it turned out to be the passenger side stationary one).

When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.

After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took Andy's advice and replaced the tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150). I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since.

To date, I have 60,000 miles on the lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.

By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339
Wow! Thanks for the update. Your experience is almost word for word the same as my experience. I hate those plastic guides. Good luck into the future.

Andy
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  #129  
Old 07-13-2015, 09:59 PM
brookolli brookolli is offline
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Hi, I just installed lockout kit and reprogrammed computer. truck idled ok but dies. there is 0 power and when I drive it it backfites a lot. I did compression test today and all cylinders were around 150psi. What am I missing
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  #130  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by brookolli View Post
Hi, I just installed lockout kit and reprogrammed computer. truck idled ok but dies. there is 0 power and when I drive it it backfites a lot. I did compression test today and all cylinders were around 150psi. What am I missing
It is quite possible you may have placed the chain(s) a tooth off by accident. Backfires are usually a sign of this.
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  #131  
Old 07-14-2015, 12:52 PM
brookolli brookolli is offline
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My passenger side VV solenoid is broken and somebody tried to fix it with silicone. Can it be an issue? When you reprogram the computer VVT solenoids don't work anyway right?
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  #132  
Old 07-14-2015, 01:04 PM
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Yes, the VCT solenoids do not work with the PCM reprogrammed. In my opinion though, I would change that VCT solenoid out anyway. I don't think that would cause an issue, but if it were me, I'd change it just because I wouldn't like any silicone near the inside of my engine. A new solenoid will run you about $50.

Chances are though, you'll be needing to pull the valve covers again to check your timing marks to make sure everything is lined up. You'll probably find one a tooth off.
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  #133  
Old 07-14-2015, 01:12 PM
brookolli brookolli is offline
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Do the timing marks have to line up after you run or turn the engine?
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  #134  
Old 07-14-2015, 01:41 PM
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Once the chain spins around some, they don't line up before a lot more rounds. Now, I have not done timing work on a 5.4 3V myself - however, I am aware when timing the engine, crank sprocket key way needs to be in the 11 o' clock position and the chain timing dimple on the crank sprocket is at 6 o' clock for everything to be in the right position when lining the marks up, etc. Crucial that the key way is in the right position. If it's aligned with the marks properly when you first put the chain on, then you should be good. They do not line up perfectly every time after the engine turns some.
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  #135  
Old 07-16-2015, 03:05 PM
brookolli brookolli is offline
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I checked the timing. It looks good. If the timing is good and I got compression on all 8 cylinders why the engine is not running right.
Can the software be the problem? I tried running it with original software and it was a little bit worse than with reprogrammed computer.


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