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2004 - 2008 F150 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Ford F150's with 5.4 V8, 4.6 V8 or 4.2 V6 engine
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  #61  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:21 AM
shfd102chief shfd102chief is offline
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Originally Posted by Papa Tiger View Post
Most likely turning the crank to get the cams to line up retarded the motor some. U want the crank on time, the pull of the chain tight and the cams on their marks or you end up unhappy probably. Sum make blocks to lock the cams in position. The New 3.7L uses a saddle block that fit the camshafts to hold them locked in place. It is best to turn the motor forward thru several revolutions by hand to make sure the marks always come back in line. Don't turn motor backwards.
Thanks for the help Papa Tiger. I read on another forum where someone had a similar problem after a timing chain change and unplugged the cam position sensors, which caused it to run fine. He said that it was because he had put the crank sensor ring on backwards. I gave this a shot and it ran much better, but not quite smooth - so I will re-do the timing and check my crank sensor ring. Now that it's running, somewhat, I also noticed that the loud tick on the passenger side didn't go away with the lockout. I was under the impression that you could put a lockout in a cam phaser and it would solve the issue of the noise. Do you think I need to actually put in a new cam phaser (sprocket) for the lockout to work?
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  #62  
Old 08-04-2012, 03:37 AM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
If you assembled it correctly all stock, then curse ford if it doesn't work.
I assembled mine correctly, it was all stock and I am Ford. I even had the 2006 F-150 Ford Factory Service manual which is For sale by the way! $75 shipped as I won't ever need it again.

So with my great experience with this Ford, I decided to buy the extended warranty for the 2011 vehicle with 13K and only 1 year old.... So for 7yrs/120K at the cost of an additional $2,100 on the total price. A mere $35/month the 5 year note, I'd say at that point I am good because at that point I'd be ok to trade it in.

I honestly feel that no vehicle (ANY Brand) when purchased new and properly maintained to Ford's standards (Gets service at a Ford dealership with the recommended MC Oil and MC Oil filter etc) should need $3,500 plus of ENGINE work when the vehicle has less than 100,000 miles on it... Just sayin
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  #63  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:07 AM
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Your noise may be under the valve cover. Some have experienced damage there also. A quick check? Loosing oil pressure for any reason usually damages other stuff in the oil stream. Believe you would have spotted Phaser damage on inspections. Cam follower wear?
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  #64  
Old 08-05-2012, 12:14 AM
shfd102chief shfd102chief is offline
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Still trying

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Originally Posted by Papa Tiger View Post
Your noise may be under the valve cover. Some have experienced damage there also. A quick check? Loosing oil pressure for any reason usually damages other stuff in the oil stream. Believe you would have spotted Phaser damage on inspections. Cam follower wear?
When I had the valve cover off I took a really close look at everything from the cam phaser back and didn't notice any excessive wear. I did notice that the phaser on the RH side was not as square as the phaser on the LH side. I don't think it was sprung, but headed that way. I used a stethoscope to listen to the motor and I think the noise is coming directly from the front of the RH side valve cover - gotta be phaser? I decided to order a new pair and put the lockouts in them.
One more quick question, just so I understand correctly. I'm going to reset the timing tomorrow, I will only turn the crank forward and the marks should line back up after I have rotated the crank several times, right? Thanks again for all of your input.
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  #65  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:48 AM
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Pulling the chains in the direction of rotation will keep the pull constant and timed. Turning back will tend to loosen the chains and cause you a migrane. If you turn 2 revolutions and loose timing. A bank of cams are probably turning a tooth on you, maybe down at the crank slipping over teeth, it is the easiest place to jump. If you have to turn the cams on one bank you want to make sure the pistons are down of TDC for that bank. Cams have to be right on both banks before chains. Don't want to turn the crank/pistons into open valves before the chains are timed properly. The new 3.7L/3.5L's have a single chain with a middle idler gear down low in the front cover using saddles over both bank of cams to hold em in place. Hopefully time will prove it a better " idea." LOL
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  #66  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:58 AM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Originally Posted by shfd102chief View Post
When I had the valve cover off I took a really close look at everything from the cam phaser back and didn't notice any excessive wear. I did notice that the phaser on the RH side was not as square as the phaser on the LH side. I don't think it was sprung, but headed that way. I used a stethoscope to listen to the motor and I think the noise is coming directly from the front of the RH side valve cover - gotta be phaser? I decided to order a new pair and put the lockouts in them.
One more quick question, just so I understand correctly. I'm going to reset the timing tomorrow, I will only turn the crank forward and the marks should line back up after I have rotated the crank several times, right? Thanks again for all of your input.
The chances of the timing marks lining up once you set the timing to the Crank gear and both Phasers to the black timing marks on the chains again is SLIM to NONE! This is because the two different sizes of gears you have on the crank and the cam phaser.

What will always happen if you are timed correctly is that your Mark on the Crank and both Phasers will be off the Same # of links on all 3 marks - See my post: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/70...l#post12010960
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  #67  
Old 08-06-2012, 04:06 PM
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The crank gear has 1/2 the teeth of the Cam gears. 21 to 42 I believe. The initial timing spot + 2 revolutions puts the crank at that initial spot while turning the cam shafts 1 turn back to their timing spots. This is what is important. The colored chain links or scribe marks on both chain and sprocket are to help with initial timing when the chains has them pulling the drive side of the chains tight thru all the gears of both chains.
There is a picture of the tool for the 5.4L in my album. Home made works.
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  #68  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:39 AM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shfd102chief View Post
When I had the valve cover off I took a really close look at everything from the cam phaser back and didn't notice any excessive wear. I did notice that the phaser on the RH side was not as square as the phaser on the LH side. I don't think it was sprung, but headed that way. I used a stethoscope to listen to the motor and I think the noise is coming directly from the front of the RH side valve cover - gotta be phaser? I decided to order a new pair and put the lockouts in them.
One more quick question, just so I understand correctly. I'm going to reset the timing tomorrow, I will only turn the crank forward and the marks should line back up after I have rotated the crank several times, right? Thanks again for all of your input.
How are you making out? Any update?
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  #69  
Old 09-24-2012, 11:58 PM
samsendgraff samsendgraff is offline
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Considering Buying 2004 F-150 4x4 5.4L 3Valve

Hi Guys,

I hope some of yall are still following this forum. I am considering buying a 2004 F-150 4x4 with ~142K miles. The current owner bought it with 10K miles on it. He changed the oil every 4000 miles or less and always used motorcraft 5w-20 and motorcraft filter. He has not had any work done to the engine. He hasn't even changed the plugs :/ However, it still runs great and the cam phasors don't make much noise. I have been reading through this forum so I know what to expect if I buy it. I am not a mechanic, but I feel comfortable working on the engine. What do you guys think? Should I buy it? How much should I expect for all the parts to cost? I am planning to do all the labor myself. How much hours would you estimate it will take me to do the work. Thanks in advance. A quick response would be greatly appreciated. I need to buy a new vehicle in the next couple of days. I have attached a link with pictures of the truck

-Sam

http://a1b2c3d4e5.shutterfly.com/pictures/16
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  #70  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:07 PM
TFields138 TFields138 is offline
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I am having similar camshaft timing issues on a 2004 F-150 with only 80K miles.

I contacted a friend who sent me step by step details on how to replace both the LH and RH cam phasers and timing chain. I have also asked if he could send me the step by step details for removing valve covers since Anyd said this was the most time consuming

I would love to help everyone out by posting these but am not allowed to post attachments on this forum.

If someone will send me an email I will send the attachments so they can post.

TFields138@yahoo.com

Here is a TSB I was also sent with the same error codes I have. TSB 12-7-10

5.4L INTERMITTENT RATTLE NOISE / ROUGH IDLE WHEN ENGINE IS AT OPERATING TEMPERATURE
ISSUE
Some 2004-2010 F-150, 2005-2010 F-Super Duty, 2005-2012 Expedition, Navigator and 2006-2008 Mark LT vehicles equipped with a 5.4L 3V engine may exhibit an intermittent rattle noise/rough idle when engine is at operating temperature. The issue is caused by oscillating cam timing, diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) P0022, P0021, P0340, and/or P0341 may be stored in the powertrain control module (PCM).

Replace both the left and right Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) Oil Control solenoids. Refer to WSM, Section 303-04B for 2004 vehicles OR 303-14 for 2005-2012 vehicles.

Here is the OEM part # 8L3Z-6M280-B, but it was recommended to replace the housing which includes the solenoid VCT Housing+Solenoid OEM Part# 8L3Z-6C260-A.

Last edited by TFields138; 10-07-2012 at 11:42 PM. Reason: additional information
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  #71  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:24 PM
stilbo stilbo is offline
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Originally Posted by pete497 View Post
I'm wondering if you could run the Livernois programming without installing the mechanical limit in the phaser and quite the noise.
I'm wondering the opposite thing since Andy stated that his engine started, idled fine and had no ECU codes with ONLY the lockouts replaced and NO reprogramming...

I'm very adverse to big $$$ for software downloads.

$470 V.S. $17 for two lockouts is a huge difference.

The only reason I've jumped in here is that I'm reluctant to get rid of my '97 F150 SCAB 4x4 with only 220,000 miles on it since it runs perfect... BUT: A used lot nearby has an extremely clean '04 F150 SCAB 4x4 with the rattling and knocking noises on the block for $6800. It has 139,000 miles on it VS my '07's mileage and the '07 is starting the cab corner and rocker rot it deserves in this nasty Great Lakes environment...
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  #72  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:44 PM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Originally Posted by stilbo View Post
I'm wondering the same thing since Andy stated that his engine started, idled fine and had no ECU codes...

$470 VS $17 for two lockouts is a huge difference.

The only reason I've jumped in here is that I'm reluctant to get rid of my '97 F150 SCAB 4x4 with only 220,000 miles on it since it runs perfect... BUT: A used lot nearby has an extremely clean '04 F150 SCAB 4x4 with the rattling and knocking noises on the block for $6800. It has 139,000 miles on it VS my '07's mileage and the '07 is starting the cab corner and rocker rot it deserves in this nasty Great Lakes environment...
Aghh.. do me a favor! Keep the 5.4 2V the 5.4 3v engine is NOT DESIGNED to last a long time there is a reason Ford no longer makes the engine - it is a POS!
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  #73  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:43 PM
stilbo stilbo is offline
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Thanks Steve!
I don't doubt that the 5.4 with VCT is a POS. Too many horror stories on low mileage trucks. I've owned and loved my Fords and Ford trucks since 1972 but from what I've read about VCT and self snapping spark plugs has actually driven me to look (only a little) at 2004-2006 GM pickups. Ick.
I prefer the last Gen F150 over the 2003-2004 F250 but the thought of a V10's pulling power and dependability V.S. the self destructing 5.4 is becomming more and more agreeable to me.
I've had two company F250's with V10's over the last eight years and put over 150,000 trouble free miles on each of them in rough service (gas utility construction running from one side of Indiana to the other).
Maybe I'll even consider a V10 Excursion...
Not as purty as a 2005 F150 but purty don't get ya home.
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  #74  
Old 12-19-2012, 10:51 AM
blueovalandy blueovalandy is offline
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Quote:
I'm wondering the opposite thing since Andy stated that his engine started, idled fine and had no ECU codes with ONLY the lockouts replaced and NO reprogramming...

I'm very adverse to big $$$ for software downloads.

$470 V.S. $17 for two lockouts is a huge difference.

The only reason I've jumped in here is that I'm reluctant to get rid of my '97 F150 SCAB 4x4 with only 220,000 miles on it since it runs perfect... BUT: A used lot nearby has an extremely clean '04 F150 SCAB 4x4 with the rattling and knocking noises on the block for $6800. It has 139,000 miles on it VS my '07's mileage and the '07 is starting the cab corner and rocker rot it deserves in this nasty Great Lakes environment...
My understanding of how the VCT works, is that at idle there is little to no movement. The cams are adjusted on deceleration to help with economy. I would guess that if I tried to operate the engine through normal circumstances (like driving down the road) it would have thrown a code and possible went into a limp mode. I would not try it on my truck.

I know that the programming is the expensive part. I looked into power hungry performance and some local tuners writing a custom tune that would disable the VCT on the ECM, but that was not going to be cheap either. Plus there was less guarantee as to any side effects or other problems that might occur. In the end, I decided to buy the Livernois kit because they have done the R&D to ensure that my truck would run as I expected to. Plus they have great customer service (meaning they actually pick up the phone when I called them, which if different than other tuners that will remain nameless)!

Also, just as an update, my truck is still running great. Nice and quite!

Andy
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  #75  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Topgun182 Topgun182 is offline
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Originally Posted by blueovalandy View Post
My understanding of how the VCT works, is that at idle there is little to no movement. The cams are adjusted on deceleration to help with economy. I would guess that if I tried to operate the engine through normal circumstances (like driving down the road) it would have thrown a code and possible went into a limp mode. I would not try it on my truck.

I know that the programming is the expensive part. I looked into power hungry performance and some local tuners writing a custom tune that would disable the VCT on the ECM, but that was not going to be cheap either. Plus there was less guarantee as to any side effects or other problems that might occur. In the end, I decided to buy the Livernois kit because they have done the R&D to ensure that my truck would run as I expected to. Plus they have great customer service (meaning they actually pick up the phone when I called them, which if different than other tuners that will remain nameless)!

Also, just as an update, my truck is still running great. Nice and quite!

Andy

Do you think it's possible that the noise was caused by the broken guide and loose chain, and that's why it's quieter? I have that noise at cold startup and it never made sense to me that a phaser already at full advance at idle would be quieter when locked that way.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:10 PM
 
 
 
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