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2004 - 2008 F150 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Ford F150's with 5.4 V8, 4.6 V8 or 4.2 V6 engine
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:24 PM
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Papa Tiger Papa Tiger is offline
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This whole thing gets into emissions and what engineers have done to control emissions. While one cam ( the exhaust is retarded to act as the EGR replacement for combustion causing NO the intake cam ( on Ti vct ) systems is advanced. The combination gives you more usable power across the RPM range due to its being more efficient than the EGR/ignition system. The retarded exhaust cam causes a dilution to the incoming advanced cams lean mixture. All this is controled by the PCM/O2/MAF open/closed loop fuel system. A lot of complication to get more bang and a whole lot more headaches. If the O2/cats systems buys the change, its probably more reliable in the long run. Gas costs or savings probably aren't much different than the cost of the VCT or Ti vct systems maintenance. I'm not to sure the system would work with a TiVCT design.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2012, 04:31 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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I finally got a good listen when starting the truck this morning and the noise that occurs for several seconds during starts is coming from the passenger side of the timing cover. I'm wondering if the passenger side tensioner has a bad seal and takes a couple seconds to pressurize upon start. . . . .
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:52 PM
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Sounds like a place to start before everything goes south on you.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:42 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Well I went ahead and ordered the timing kit and lockouts after doing a little more research on the subject . . . . . gonna try and take a long weekend next weekend at take care of this hopefully once and for all.
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  #20  
Old 04-24-2012, 06:19 AM
elrodalonzo elrodalonzo is offline
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crazyhorse

This sounds like an excellent way to fix the phaser problem. Thanks for all the good info. Is it possible to just replace the lockouts and timing chain kit without affecting the timing and also without tuning the engine? Thanks I may tackle this project on my 04 next winter it just hit 70k. I already did the plugs and would be set after this, I hope.
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  #21  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:50 PM
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I was just curious if there was any update on fuel economy and drivability of the truck since the cam phaser locks were installed. I have an 06 F150 5.4 with 68000 miles and it is just starting to have a little phaser noise. I was considering doing the spark plugs soon and thought I might just tackle the Phaedra locks as well. I just wanted to check in before I spend that kind of dough.
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:30 PM
jrroth jrroth is offline
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I'll be replacing the timing chain tensioners as I'm pretty sure the passenger side tensioner has a bad seal. To anyone who has done this - is the special Ford Tensioner Retaining Clip (1L3Z-6P250-AA) required or can you compress and hold it a different way?
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:16 PM
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Paper clip, allen wrench, compress it in a vise.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
jrroth jrroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Tiger View Post
Paper clip, allen wrench, compress it in a vise.
Thanks . . however call me stupid but I'm not able to visualize how a paper clip and allen wrench will hold the tensioner.

Secondly - do you really have to remove the rocker arms if you are only removing the chains and cam phaser - and not the camshaft?
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:33 PM
blueovalandy blueovalandy is offline
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Alright, a quick MPG update...

Since installing the lockouts and fixing my timing chains/guides/and tenisoners, I have been very pleased with my truck. The performance difference is unnoticeable, it cranks exactly the same, it pulls exactly the same, and it is sooooooooooo much quieter than it has ever been since I have owned the truck. I have had no check engine lights, or any other computer/tuning problems.

As far as mileage, I have run a couple of tanks through the truck and have only noticed a slight drop in MPG. Before the lockouts (with my 2.5 level kit and 295 70 18 terra grapplers) I averaged around 13.5-14 MPG on my mostly city commute. Right now I am averaging 13-13.5 MPG. I took a trip to Charlotte last weekend and got 15 MPG while doing 80+ on the interstate.

I know the mileage is not as good as if I were driving a honda or toyota, but I love my truck. Plus now that it doesn't do all of the clacking and knocking, I am actually proud to drive it.

Andy
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  #26  
Old 06-18-2012, 06:06 AM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Fix it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrroth View Post
Thanks . . however call me stupid but I'm not able to visualize how a paper clip and allen wrench will hold the tensioner.

Secondly - do you really have to remove the rocker arms if you are only removing the chains and cam phaser - and not the camshaft?
So Jim - Did you ever fix it? How did it go?

I recently (last week) finished replacing both Phasers, both VCT soleniods (Screens had holes see "My VCT Soleniod" thread and 1 Cam position sensor (CMP) on Bank 1. I also did all 8 plugs while I had the mess apart (only broke 4).

However!!! I still get the rough idle after warmup on occasion .. and it even threw a P0345 Code!

At this point I really think my tensioners are leaking... I am at wits end with this truck and I think it is BULLSH### that after using my truck as a daily commuter / haul my snowmobile/atv in the bed.. Oil has always been changed @ Dealer with Motorcraft 5w20 every 5K. Truck has 85,000 miles and I have had to replace the following:

Drivers Cat & FPM $900 - local mechanic
Cam Phasers, Plugs, VCT soleniod, Cam posit Sensor $700 - Me

I am into it for $1600 and I still need to spend another $225 or so for a Cloyes timing chain kit and front cover gasket and another 10 hours of my time...

I am glad that I can do the work otherwise this truck would be GONE
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:25 PM
jrroth jrroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Uzi View Post
So Jim - Did you ever fix it? How did it go?
Hey Steve -

Well it took me almost 6 weeks to replace all the timing parts (Cloyes kit) plus one of the phasers was broken. I bought two new phasers (Dorman) and installed the Livernois Lockout Kit. I would have gone with OEM phasers if I wasn't going to lock them out. I just don't want to be bothered by this phaser issue again. Anyway it took six weeks because I went to PA one weekend, went to England for 9 days (two weekends), daughters Masters program graduation one weekend! I don't have time during the week due to my work schedule. Actually I could have done it in one weekend but having to order the new phasers messed that up.

So after all was said and done - it started and ran great and very quiet but that lasted one day. The next day I noticed a shudder when it downshifted into third gear from OD. After a few tests I ruled out the transmission and determined I had a misfore of some sort although the the ECU wasn't reporting misfires. After some research I learned that a COP or plug going bad could cause the shuddering (which I knew) without any reported misfires or DTCs. Sine the plugs already had 45000 miles on them (replaced them at 45000 miles) I decided to replace the plugs. Well I found coolant in the 1st two front wells on the passenger side. I guess I forgot to check to make sure that no coolant spilled in there when I was disassembling the coolant lines for easier access to the valve cover. I'm not sure if that was the problem or not but after replacing the plugs and making sure that the COPs were dry and in good shape, it is back to running great.

My mpg is approx 15.2 mpg per the computer (after 2 tanks of gas) whereas it was 15.4 mpg before the work. I did notice on Saturday when transporting a small car, that it lacked a little power but that was expected with the cam timing fixed as it is. It just seemed to take a little longer to accelerate than before as far as I can recall.

Bottom line is I'm quite happy after spending around $900 versus the $2600 Ford wanted. And also my supposedly badly sludged engine wasn't actually too bad. Of course that diagnosis was made by only looking down the oil filler cap!!! I also change my oil no more than every 5000 miles with MC 5W-20 however I think I may switch to 5W30 Synthetic after I run a few thousand miles with some high detergent 10W-30.

Good Luck
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  #28  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:20 PM
Steve_Uzi Steve_Uzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrroth View Post
Hey Steve -

Well it took me almost 6 weeks to replace all the timing parts (Cloyes kit) plus one of the phasers was broken. I bought two new phasers (Dorman) and installed the Livernois Lockout Kit. I would have gone with OEM phasers if I wasn't going to lock them out. I just don't want to be bothered by this phaser issue again. Anyway it took six weeks because I went to PA one weekend, went to England for 9 days (two weekends), daughters Masters program graduation one weekend! I don't have time during the week due to my work schedule. Actually I could have done it in one weekend but having to order the new phasers messed that up.

So after all was said and done - it started and ran great and very quiet but that lasted one day. The next day I noticed a shudder when it downshifted into third gear from OD. After a few tests I ruled out the transmission and determined I had a misfore of some sort although the the ECU wasn't reporting misfires. After some research I learned that a COP or plug going bad could cause the shuddering (which I knew) without any reported misfires or DTCs. Sine the plugs already had 45000 miles on them (replaced them at 45000 miles) I decided to replace the plugs. Well I found coolant in the 1st two front wells on the passenger side. I guess I forgot to check to make sure that no coolant spilled in there when I was disassembling the coolant lines for easier access to the valve cover. I'm not sure if that was the problem or not but after replacing the plugs and making sure that the COPs were dry and in good shape, it is back to running great.

My mpg is approx 15.2 mpg per the computer (after 2 tanks of gas) whereas it was 15.4 mpg before the work. I did notice on Saturday when transporting a small car, that it lacked a little power but that was expected with the cam timing fixed as it is. It just seemed to take a little longer to accelerate than before as far as I can recall.

Bottom line is I'm quite happy after spending around $900 versus the $2600 Ford wanted. And also my supposedly badly sludged engine wasn't actually too bad. Of course that diagnosis was made by only looking down the oil filler cap!!! I also change my oil no more than every 5000 miles with MC 5W-20 however I think I may switch to 5W30 Synthetic after I run a few thousand miles with some high detergent 10W-30.

Good Luck
Jim,

Thanks for the detailed reply.. I realize posting my question and Reading more post that indeed your problem was fixed!

I am not going to go with the Livernois setup - but simply replace the chains, tensioners and guides as it seems that we had the EXACT SAME problem...

I hope to tear into it starting Friday!

Just a few questions:

1) Any special tool need to get the Harmonic balancer (HB) off or just a regular HB puller

2) How do I rotate the crank back to TDC once the HB is off? ( I am obviously going to pull the plugs)

Thanks!
-Steve
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  #29  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:27 PM
jrroth jrroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Uzi View Post

1) Any special tool need to get the Harmonic balancer (HB) off or just a regular HB puller

2) How do I rotate the crank back to TDC once the HB is off? ( I am obviously going to pull the plugs)

Thanks!
-Steve
1) I used a regular HB puller although the one I rented from Advance Auto only had 2 bolts the size I needed instead of the three required. I just picked up another at Lowes for a couple of bucks.

2) I started with the crank at TDC although you can rotate the engine clockwise by re-installing the bolt. I had to use my impact wrench to get the crank bolt loose.
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:25 PM
pete497 pete497 is offline
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I'm wondering if you could run the Livernois programming without installing the mechanical limit in the phaser and quite the noise.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:25 PM
 
 
 
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