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  #16  
Old 05-02-2012, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchamberlain View Post
I'm pretty sure Ford designed the cooling system the way they did for a reason. .
Probably for those moments when you pull 25,000 lb at 115F on those 12 miles grades we have at Baker, Bakersvile, or Grapevine.
Doesn't happen very often but than you love the big fan at the moment.
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:44 AM
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holy hell there is some BS going on in this thread

1. It's a truck...most see conditions where a flimsy electric fan will disentigrate. Picture water splashing, dirt/mud
2. You do this to replace mechanical clutch fans. These trucks have electric clutch fans
3. The main reason for this mod is to free up the parasitic drag. In a truck this big/heavy, it won't do much HP/TQ wise. But it will help the motor rev quicker.



I wouldn't do this personally. In a 1/2 ton, sure. They don't get worked potentially as hard. That, and they're clutch driven. As mentioned by dchamberlain, the PCM will take care of the fan as needed
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:41 AM
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I find it weird that no one has asked what engine the original poster has in the truck?

His profile says 2001, but no engine info. In 2001, the gassers have a standard clutch fan, not electric clutch.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:45 AM
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Good point! I ASSumed it was a 6.0L and didn't even see the year.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:56 AM
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Good point! I ASSumed it was a 6.0L and didn't even see the year.
Me too

Still wouldn't do one
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
1. It's a truck...most see conditions where a flimsy electric fan will disentigrate. Picture water splashing, dirt/mud
that's a pretty funny claim being that a lot of high performance set ups that I've seen for off road like you are describing actually use high end radiators coupled with what? Electric "FLIMSY PLASTIC" fans. I've seen plenty of mud doggers (mud racers, mud draggers...what ever you call them where you are from) that all convert from the clutch style.

Quote:
2. You do this to replace mechanical clutch fans. These trucks have electric clutch fans
Mechanical? Electrical? Please tell me what difference that makes?! That's merely the means of engaging or disengaging the fan! The problem still resides in the added weight on the rotating assembly, IE...parasitic loss.

Quote:
3. The main reason for this mod is to free up the parasitic drag. In a truck this big/heavy, it won't do much HP/TQ wise. But it will help the motor rev quicker.
I wouldn't do this personally. In a 1/2 ton, sure. They don't get worked potentially as hard. That, and they're clutch driven. As mentioned by dchamberlain, the PCM will take care of the fan as needed
Help the motor rev quicker?! If you did this mod on a low power application, then I could POSSIBLY agree a little with you. My Mom had a Geo Metro when I was younger that I teased her about. I told her that her A/C button was actually a nitrous button. Because when you turned it OFF...you could FEEL a 'surge' of power. Because it had so little. So an engine that is already struggling, freeing up any bit possible would help.
But as you said...you won't notice a power increase due to the weight of the trucks.
"quicker rev's" would be more associated to a cam configuration. Or if you want to be really granular about it, the whole cam/intake/exhaust configuration.

Adding an electrical fan is NOT a power adder. Although it DOES free up a few HP by reducing the amount of parasitic loss. Simply put...it's for added economy. And it does work. Will it give you 30 mpg? No. But with the prices of fuel these days, 1 or 2 mpg gains can save hundreds over time. Along with the fact that it helps the engine a little...is it worth it? It's got my vote.

Someone mentioned towing up hill and over heating. Personally? If I'm towing a heavy pig up hill, and my engine is having a hard time keeping RPM's...then my cooling system is also lacking because the fan isn't' spinning as fast as it could/should. But if I have an electric fan, then it's still cooling at it's maximum performance.

One last thing...and this is just my own thought process, with NOTHING to back it up...the claims about how our fans were designed at 6-10K cfm. Common sense to me says that in order to achieve that, the fan has to not only be large, but have some serious pitch to it in order to produce that kind of airflow without turning 10K RPM.
Ok...cool. But I read somewhere when I was researching for my Dodge, that it takes something like 7hp to turn the smaller fans that also have less pitch. So just how much does it take to turn our monster?
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicjunkie View Post
Someone mentioned towing up hill and over heating. Personally? If I'm towing a heavy pig up hill, and my engine is having a hard time keeping RPM's...then my cooling system is also lacking because the fan isn't' spinning as fast as it could/should. But if I have an electric fan, then it's still cooling at it's maximum performance.
The crucial word here is "It's"
When belt driven fan have about 7 HP output (some say even 40HP) the electric fans are unavailable at such power. Not even saying that 7 HP electric motor weights about 100 lb.
I drive in hot weather on grades all the time and my engine fan usually never comes on driving pickup alone, but when you tow heavy and face long grade having electric fan -your only option is wait till 2 AM for colder temperatures. Have fun with that.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2012, 01:42 PM
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The biggest single fans pull around 22 amps at 12 volts, that is only 264 watts. One horsepower is 746 watts, so the biggest single fans are only about 1/3 horsepower.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicjunkie View Post
that's a pretty funny claim being that a lot of high performance set ups that I've seen for off road like you are describing actually use high end radiators coupled with what? Electric "FLIMSY PLASTIC" fans. I've seen plenty of mud doggers (mud racers, mud draggers...what ever you call them where you are from) that all convert from the clutch style.
Actually, those vehicles move radiator and fan to bed...behind the cab. You know, where mud and high velocity water aren't issues. They do this because water impact breaks fan blades, and mud clogs the rad fins


Mechanical? Electrical? Please tell me what difference that makes?! That's merely the means of engaging or disengaging the fan! The problem still resides in the added weight on the rotating assembly, IE...parasitic loss.
Do you understand how mechanical clutch fans work? At low speeds they are engaged to ensure cooling with little/no air flow due to vehicle speed. ie: traffic

So a mechanical clutch presents a parasitic drag in most conditions. Especially if your vehicle is in final gear and cruising at lower RPM's. Nature of the beast

With electronic cllutch, the PCM can command it on/off as needed. So at highway speeds where the fan isn't needed, it's off. No parasitic drag



Help the motor rev quicker?! If you did this mod on a low power application, then I could POSSIBLY agree a little with you. My Mom had a Geo Metro when I was younger that I teased her about. I told her that her A/C button was actually a nitrous button. Because when you turned it OFF...you could FEEL a 'surge' of power. Because it had so little. So an engine that is already struggling, freeing up any bit possible would help.
But as you said...you won't notice a power increase due to the weight of the trucks.
"quicker rev's" would be more associated to a cam configuration. Or if you want to be really granular about it, the whole cam/intake/exhaust configuration.
Oh really?

Take all that spinning mass out of the equation an the motor won't spin quicker?. Where did you learn physics?

It's the same principle as people installing lightweight crank dampeners. Or putting lightweight rims on a sports car. Less mass to rotate, less power robbed. In this case, removing the fan completely adds a noticeable change in rev speed



Adding an electrical fan is NOT a power adder. Although it DOES free up a few HP by reducing the amount of parasitic loss. Simply put...it's for added economy. And it does work. Will it give you 30 mpg? No. But with the prices of fuel these days, 1 or 2 mpg gains can save hundreds over time. Along with the fact that it helps the engine a little...is it worth it? It's got my vote.
See, we can agree on something.


Someone mentioned towing up hill and over heating. Personally? If I'm towing a heavy pig up hill, and my engine is having a hard time keeping RPM's...then my cooling system is also lacking because the fan isn't' spinning as fast as it could/should. But if I have an electric fan, then it's still cooling at it's maximum performance.
Your fan isn't really doing diddly at highway speeds. It make be spinning, but the greatest flow is coming from the actual movement of the truck
See bold above.
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:58 PM
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ok...time for some really simple math here..
And I do mean SIMPLE.

for lamens conversation only, numbers are NOT to spec.

motor a (clutch fan) : nominal cruise rpms 3000, turning clutch fan (when engaged) puts out 1000 cfm.
same engine pulling extreme load on incline. cruising rpm's drop to 2200 as engine/trans struggle to keep speed. Clutch fan puts out only 750 CFM...

motor b (electric fan): nominal cruise rpms 3000, electric fan puts out 1000 cfm when engaged.
same engine pulling extreme load on incline. cruising rpm's drop to 2200 as engine/trans struggle to keep speed. E-fan puts out same 1000 CFM... because it's independant of engine RPM's.

I don't see where the confusion is.
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2012, 04:00 PM
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That's why when your engine is struggling you kick it down a gear. Let it rev and work easier while get better cooling.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicjunkie View Post
I don't see where the confusion is.
do have any mechanical understanding?

Your motor will be screaming at 4-6,000 rpm pulling a heavy load in 1st or 2nd gear for gasser

Or 3,500 if psd

Still, trans won't let you lug the **** out of it with heavy load and low speed

If a stick, you'll just resurface your clutch face and flywheel

At least argue your point logically
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2012, 04:33 PM
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Do you have a picture of any 20,000 cfm fan powered by 12V motor?
How about 10,000?
I am all for electric fans for cooling, but it has to make sense. On my Mercedes diesel fan clutch froze over 2 years ago. I removed it and drive with no engine fan since. So far stuck in traffic at 104F my engine went to 200 max. But I don't haul with the sedan and when I was replacing radiator on it years ago, was surprised that hidden behind the spoiler the radiator for 3l engine was about the size the radiators on Superduty are.,
Still have new clutch/fan waiting in the garage for next summer vacations on desert.
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kajtek1 View Post
On my Mercedes diesel fan clutch froze over 2 years ago. I removed it and drive with no engine fan since.
Try that with your F250 or better yet, your F450 - at least those are germane to the conversation here in the Super Duty forum.

--

On a side note, please keep this conversation civil. It's already getting out of hand, and does NOT NEED TO BE.
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:12 PM
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Try that with your F250 or better yet, your F450 - .
Would I use them as grocery getters, I just might.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:12 PM
 
 
 
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