M5R2 or ZF for MPG and occasional junk car hauling
#16
03-17-2012, 11:49 PM
If I'm right, the port to connect a code reader is right below the brake booster and master cylinder on the wheel well under the hood.
That's if I'm right, don't take it as gospel.
Glad we could be of help.
Let us know how things go and if she throws codes/what you find.
That's if I'm right, don't take it as gospel.
Glad we could be of help.
Let us know how things go and if she throws codes/what you find.
#17
03-18-2012, 02:57 AM
If you can't find a parts store around you that can pull the code, like here where I live, you can do it with a hot wire finder. Just go to the big six forum and check out the "sticky" on the top. There's a writeup on how to do it. One thing it wont show, or at least mine didn't, is a bad O2 sensor. Beings they're fairly cheap, and a regular maintenance item, I'd replace it anyway.
#18
03-18-2012, 05:38 AM
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Just thought I might throw my 2 cents in here.... My '83 that I used to have was a 300/NP435/3.08 truck, and there wasn't much I couldn't do with it. I regularly pulled 5-7K loads with it without a problem. Mine averaged around 16 mpg combined, although it was four wheel drive. I would stay away from the M5R2 if possible, I have one in my '86 Supercab behind a 302 and I don't care for it much. (It was originally an AOD). My truck has 3.55 gears and reverse is pretty much useless if it is loaded or with a trailer. It is just too high of a gear. First gear is not much better. I would recommend retrofitting to a DSII ignition and non-feedback carb first. EFI exhaust manifold are also a great upgrade that should help with the mpg's.
#19
03-18-2012, 09:29 AM
I will tell you now, unless you find that one employee that has a reader personally, you likely will not find a parts store that will be able to read codes on anything less that a 95-6. I would do it with my own reader, but nobody else at the store would.(none of them had a reader, and the store does not have one to do OBD available for use) You can still get the code readers for around $40 though. The plug is kind of a combination between a rectangle and a triangle on one side, and gray as mentioned, may possibly still have the black cover, and is under the hood. The ones I have dealt with were on the driver side, but those are slightly newer than your truck.
I have an 88 250 with the ZF in it, and 351 W. Sure, is a bit tired, but with the 3.08 gears, it still doesn't do much better than 10. It also is 4x4, but the 89 I had in the past with 4.10 gears and 5 speed got a best of 12. The I6'2 do quite a bit better, but it can be tough to attain 20 mpg with these old trucks. You definitely will have to slow down.
Interstates have been around much longer than the higher speed limits. The 55 mph enforcement was to save fuel, instituted in the 70's, lifted more in the late 80's. Prior to that, there wasn't that much for a limit on the interstates. Not quite autobahn type behavior, but reasonable speeds would be the terminology, much like what Montana tried to go back to.
I have an 88 250 with the ZF in it, and 351 W. Sure, is a bit tired, but with the 3.08 gears, it still doesn't do much better than 10. It also is 4x4, but the 89 I had in the past with 4.10 gears and 5 speed got a best of 12. The I6'2 do quite a bit better, but it can be tough to attain 20 mpg with these old trucks. You definitely will have to slow down.
Interstates have been around much longer than the higher speed limits. The 55 mph enforcement was to save fuel, instituted in the 70's, lifted more in the late 80's. Prior to that, there wasn't that much for a limit on the interstates. Not quite autobahn type behavior, but reasonable speeds would be the terminology, much like what Montana tried to go back to.
#20
03-18-2012, 01:19 PM
So, if you want a zf or even the M5OD, you will need to source one that was behind a 351w or I6, I don't think the zf was ever offered behind a 302 but the M5OD could be found behind the 302.
And getting back to the ratios, you need to be careful here. I am thinking a overdrive tranny with a 3.08 gear may be too much. They ran this combo in cars(lightweight mustangs) but it may be too much for a heavier truck. What the other poster said about his same combo with 4x4 sounds more in the ballpark of what you will be getting (16mpg). I would get it running right, and then see what you have.
One thing you can check is the timing. It was computer controlled, so if the timing is not advancing correctly, you will get very poor mileage and power, and it's a sign the computer system has a problem. If you can repair this system you should, it's noted for it being hard to work on but it gets the best fuel mileage on this engine.
#21
03-18-2012, 02:42 PM
If, like you say, you do a lot of high speed highway driving then you might want to look for some other means of transportation. Even the 84 Mustang 5.0L I used to own only did about 25mpg at highway speeds. These trucks have the aerodynamics of a brick and were designed around a 55 mph speed limit. Check out Find and Compare Cars and see what the average for your truck would be. You might get a little better, or worse, but will probably be close. I have a 85 F150 with the I6/4sp O/D and do a little over 18 highway. But I drive 60-65 max normally, above 65 the mpg drops fast. Don't get me wrong, I love mine and use it as my daily driver but I only do about 7k miles a year to. If you live in Atlanta I don't suspect getting rid of the TFI/Feedback setup is an option because of smog checks. But even if it is I'd see what it would take to get it all working right, JMO.
#22
03-18-2012, 04:33 PM
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Wow, get back from church and a ton of info waiting for me. Thanks so much! BTW Franklin2 my reply to you was unclear it was gUtting not getting a gas ZF. Great info though. In reply to some about my driving, yeah I know an old truck is not a freeway flyer. The 96 5.0 F150 I had at best got 16mpg. My now 05 SuperCab 5.4 gets 18 at those speeds and 20-21 at 65. Looks like I will be slowing down a bit if I want to sell the 05 and drive the 84. After resolving the trans issue I was considering an aftermarket EFI, headers and a mild turbo combo just for bragging rights. Stock is what goes on a shelf. Now it might be actually useful in getting a 3-4 more mpg. More research to do after I get her cranked and at least running around. Can't test what you can't crank up.
#24
03-18-2012, 07:58 PM
They do indeed make a ZF for your 4.9L / 5.8L housing. These are all the "wide" ratio type with the granny gear. Don't know too much about them, but they do exist in 4x4 or 2x4 versions. With 3.08 gears your 5th is going to be a ~very tall highway gear, maybe too much. The 4.9 does deliver low end torque so it might handle it, but I think you should be getting fine mpg's with your 3.08's and the NP435. Probably not worth the $$, and it won't pay you back at the pump.
Franklin, you can get either a narrow range ZF or a wide range ZF with the diesel bell housing. I wanted the wide range one (with the granny gear) but ended up finding a good deal on a regular (narrow range) diesel ZF. If you are looking for the wide range one, they put it in the F450's with the drive shaft drum brake. This comes off and you bolt up your transfer case there.
ZFReman# ZFPart# Engine Application Ratio Speedo
1307050056 1307050004 6.9/7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050056 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050070 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050099 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050057 1307050035 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050038 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050057 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050059 1307050022 6.9/7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 7Tooth
1307050059 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 7Tooth
1307050071 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050101 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050102 1307050021 6.9/7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050032 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050060 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050082 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050102 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050103 1307050036 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050044 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050065 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050086 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050103 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050109 1307050005 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050031 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050043 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050058 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050081 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050100 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050236 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
ZFReman# ZFPart# Engine Application Ratio Speedo
1307050108 1307050108 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050109 1307050109 7.3 4x4/Superduty 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050110 1307050110 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050111 1307050111 7.3 4x4/Superduty 5.72-0.76 Electronic
Sorry for the mangled numbers (pasted out of a pdf) but I don't have a link for the actual file. Point is the ZF S542 diesel housing transmissions had 32 different part numbers listed on the aluminum tag, 11 of these were wide ratio units with the 5.72 first gear. Much better that goofing with the mounting holes on a 460 gas ZF or switching out the guts into a diesel housing!
I don't know if you realize it yet, but all the Ford 5 speeds have integral bellhousings, unlike your 4 speed. So a 460 or 351w/I6 zf will not bolt up to my diesel. There are people who have taken a 460 zf and re-drilled the tranny bell to fit, but it's not necessary in my case, since I have 4x4.
ZFReman# ZFPart# Engine Application Ratio Speedo
1307050056 1307050004 6.9/7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050056 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050070 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050099 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050057 1307050035 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050038 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050057 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 8Tooth
1307050059 1307050022 6.9/7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 7Tooth
1307050059 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 7Tooth
1307050071 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050101 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050102 1307050021 6.9/7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050032 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050060 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050082 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050102 7.3 4x4 5.72-0.76 —
1307050103 1307050036 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050044 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050065 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050086 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050103 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050109 1307050005 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050031 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050043 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050058 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050081 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050100 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
1307050236 7.3 4x4 4.14-0.77 —
ZFReman# ZFPart# Engine Application Ratio Speedo
1307050108 1307050108 7.3 4x2 4.14-0.77 Electronic
1307050109 1307050109 7.3 4x4/Superduty 4.14-0.77 7Tooth
1307050110 1307050110 7.3 4x2 5.72-0.76 Electronic
1307050111 1307050111 7.3 4x4/Superduty 5.72-0.76 Electronic
Sorry for the mangled numbers (pasted out of a pdf) but I don't have a link for the actual file. Point is the ZF S542 diesel housing transmissions had 32 different part numbers listed on the aluminum tag, 11 of these were wide ratio units with the 5.72 first gear. Much better that goofing with the mounting holes on a 460 gas ZF or switching out the guts into a diesel housing!
#25
03-18-2012, 08:06 PM
From my understanding, the wide ratio wasn't available in my year truck, but a couple of years later they did make it available like you said.
I have come across one advantage to the high speed reverse. It is excellent for plowing snow in parking lots. It gets on with it in reverse and saves time. But if I didn't have the low range in the transfer case, I would have a real problem backing up trailers sometimes.
I have come across one advantage to the high speed reverse. It is excellent for plowing snow in parking lots. It gets on with it in reverse and saves time. But if I didn't have the low range in the transfer case, I would have a real problem backing up trailers sometimes.
#26
03-20-2012, 06:49 PM
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Done the too tall final drive gear before and will not be doing it again. If anything I would swap out the rear for something lower if the numbers crunched. For now I will leave in the NP435 and start the quest for what to steal from what to make Frankendaddy a fire breathing straight six. Back from the parts store with $206 worth of get it done parts.
For all who are interested in who's working on what. Don't rake me because it isn't a Ford. I do own two. I just finished a complete custom wiring harness and 1776cc motor build. Loyd Edwards of Mcdonough, GA built this custom 73 Super Beetle Step Side. Age and illness kept him from finishing so his wife and son hired me to bring it to life. It got a Kennedy clutch, custom fab intake, fabbed heat shield/remote oil line holder and restored Holley Bug Spray carb, Porsche switches, headlight relay upgrade and blade fuse box. She laid 6' of rubber on wide tires and barked 2nd on her first run. I delivered it to a happy Edwards family yesterday. Pic is a link to the album on webshots.
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For all who are interested in who's working on what. Don't rake me because it isn't a Ford. I do own two. I just finished a complete custom wiring harness and 1776cc motor build. Loyd Edwards of Mcdonough, GA built this custom 73 Super Beetle Step Side. Age and illness kept him from finishing so his wife and son hired me to bring it to life. It got a Kennedy clutch, custom fab intake, fabbed heat shield/remote oil line holder and restored Holley Bug Spray carb, Porsche switches, headlight relay upgrade and blade fuse box. She laid 6' of rubber on wide tires and barked 2nd on her first run. I delivered it to a happy Edwards family yesterday. Pic is a link to the album on webshots.
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#27
03-20-2012, 08:11 PM
Elder User
If, like you say, you do a lot of high speed highway driving then you might want to look for some other means of transportation. Even the 84 Mustang 5.0L I used to own only did about 25mpg at highway speeds. These trucks have the aerodynamics of a brick and were designed around a 55 mph speed limit. Check out Find and Compare Cars and see what the average for your truck would be. You might get a little better, or worse, but will probably be close. I have a 85 F150 with the I6/4sp O/D and do a little over 18 highway. But I drive 60-65 max normally, above 65 the mpg drops fast. Don't get me wrong, I love mine and use it as my daily driver but I only do about 7k miles a year to. If you live in Atlanta I don't suspect getting rid of the TFI/Feedback setup is an option because of smog checks. But even if it is I'd see what it would take to get it all working right, JMO.
For all who are interested in who's working on what. Don't rake me because it isn't a Ford. I do own two. I just finished a complete custom wiring harness and 1776cc motor build. Loyd Edwards of Mcdonough, GA built this custom 73 Super Beetle Step Side. Age and illness kept him from finishing so his wife and son hired me to bring it to life. It got a Kennedy clutch, custom fab intake, fabbed heat shield/remote oil line holder and restored Holley Bug Spray carb, Porsche switches, headlight relay upgrade and blade fuse box. She laid 6' of rubber on wide tires and barked 2nd on her first run. I delivered it to a happy Edwards family yesterday. Pic is a link to the album on webshots.
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#28
03-20-2012, 08:12 PM
#29
03-20-2012, 08:35 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 18
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Thanks, I can't take credit for the bodywork, Loyd did that himself. I just reconfigured the generic domestic harness to VW specs and to use 914 Porsche switches. The motor was built and torn down 3 times for various issues and part crap outs. I actually started having nightmares about whether the cam was lined up with the crank.
#30
03-20-2012, 10:08 PM
And believe me, I understand the speeds around here; my daily driver is a G37, it idles at about 80mph...and I have the tickets to prove it.
