What is with fuel prices now? $3.90 for 87 and $4.10 for diesel?! This has to end somewhere. EVERYTHING is been risen due to fuel costs. Not to mention the housing market but that's anouther thread. I thought $3 was bad but damn. This is getting ridiculous. Its getting to the point where this country will seize to operate because of it and when it does, What is everyone going to say? " Couldn't afford to get to work. Sorry." Cost going up, Paychecks staying low if you're not getting laid off to cut costs....Pitiful. Of coarse the government will not say a damn thing. Hell, most of them are receiving cut backs from this most likely. When is all the BS going to end? Sigh......I suppose the general american public wants things to get as worse as it can. Who knows.....If I could, I'd move to canada just to get away from this....

 

Petroleum products are a global market, and there is ample material on the internet if you are interested in actually understanding why prices are high. Moving won't help. (Foreign roadside assistance businesses like yours exist, but what they drive looks different and is usually smaller.)

Short version:
People producing gasoline are in business to sell to the highest bidder, and you can't very well "blame" the bidders since they aren't going to waste money by inflating the price thus reducing their own profit margin. Refineries must also operate at a profit or they get shut down and sold off.

 

Inflation is also another major factor. If you think gas is high here you won't like Canada.

Paid $3.40 for premium this morning. Prices will increase until the end of May just like very year then level off and go down, come back up for the end of summer then go down again.

 

Here's my outlook on it:

Everyone needs fuel for their vehicles and for business. The oil producers know this and they also know we will buy it. You can not buy oil for oen day and it still won't hurt them because some guy behind you will buy fuel because he needs to go to work or to run his business. They know and we know that no one wants to ride a horse everyday to work or to go on trips. So people will need fuel and they will provide it at what cost they want it UNTIL some person(s) stand up forcefully and push the greed out.

If you have oil, YOU HAVE POWER. You can control any governments/countries economy by running an oil company. This is why many governments try to occupy countries where oil is because the more oil wells they got their hands on- the better. One reason why the US is in the Middle East YET prices do like they do because everyone (if they have a mind) knows the government ain't going to get involved in something that they won't make no $$$ off of.

If you look back in history, the US government did an oil embargo on Japan (which led the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor) because Japan was at war with China (since they never liked each other because the Chinese was Communist and Japan needed resources since their population was growing and they didn't have enough resources on their island) but America depended on China for resources, etc (and still do today). This led , as I stated above, the America government putting the oil and steel embargo on Japan (ending all trading). Japan needed the oil or else their economy would collapse more which would destroy them. REMEMBER, THIS WAS DURING THE DEPRESSION ERA. Germany was basically the only country which already made it out of the Depression with war debts before the rest of the world was out. Only WW2 brought rest of the Allied countries out of the Depression due to war manufacturing back in their countries to hire civilians.

If the American Government didn't do the embargo then many men at Pearl Harbor who died would possibly have lived.


My point being. People depend on oil. Governments control it and don't say they don't.

Canada is one of our biggest oil producers.

The US has oil but doesn't want to drill it hardly and will use excuses to cap it off.


People say the Middle East will run out of oil; hell they been pumpin oil since before WW2 and that was 60+ yrs ago and people still get oil and there is no signs of them saying it's about out.

 

How much of the oil being refined is foreign and how much is domestic? We've got the reserves right here at home, why aren't we drilling for it? Oh, right... environmentalists...

 

Some points to ponder.
1. The majority of the oil imported by the US comes from Canada and Mexico.
2. The US has just refused permission for a pipeline to run from Canada direct to US refineries. This pipeline could have carried the equivalent of a third of Irans daily total output of crude.
3. The decision by the US and the EU to mandate low sulphur fuels added the equivalent of $30.00 a barrel to the price of oil.
4. The decision by the US and the EU to embargo Iranian oil added around $10.00 to the price of oil.

 

Varies by location within the US and by "who buys what" on the market. Also, not all crude oil is interchangeable so refineries best-equipped to handle given types tend to do that.

This info is way out of date but the map is informative:

U.S. Oil Import Sankey Movie | Sankey Diagrams

Straight out into the Gulf and global markets. That's why TransCanada wants it! "Pipeline go through US" doesn't mean "into your gas tank". The SAME oil is currently going (mostly) into US refineries in the Midwest NOW and lack of easy port access means it sells to US customers for less than otherwise.
It doesn't add to the price of "oil", it adds to the price of refined low-sulphur diesel. I support anthropogenic global warming because I want the Third World to desertify and die, but breathing pollution yourself is not the greatest idea. We could let the US look like Mexico city, but that kills and debilitates lots of Mexicans so maybe it's not a good plan for us to copy.
That's a better business decision than war which would drive it higher. You DO know that right now the US has to protect oil going to CHINA by securing the Strait of Hormuz using our carrier battle groups and other assets? Uncle Sugar is stuck protecting global prices, but that also saves trillions in "defense" expenses our market competition doesn't have to spend. Not a political statement, just economic reality.

We borrow money from China to defend the right of our dear OPEC friends to sell oil to China and thus help restrain global oil prices. The taxpayer doesn't "see" anything but the gas pump and doesn't really care.

No matter how much crude the US pumps, the rest of the world is free (within market and logistical constraints) to buy it. No matter how much gasoline and diesel the US refines, refiners are free to sell it. That's part of "freedom" and capitalism, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's great for our balance of payments.

Prices go down when the MARKET FORCES them down due to surplus, competition, and so forth. They rise due to market demand.

There is no Magic Fuel Fairy coming to the rescue. Global demand is increasing.
Companies don't drill to make consumers happy, they drill (or cap!) to get the best return on their investment.

 

I have been told that the plan is to let the others run out first, so that we would be in control. It was also said there would not be any more new oil discoveries in the late 2oth century. The oil that is being found however, is harder and more expensive to get to and to get to the refineries. Some of the oil is very expensive to extract and refine, so recent prices have made it to where they can make money on it. It is still a business, and companies still need to make money doing it, or they disappear. If it is not profitable, then the government would have to set up subsidies. Then you in essence pay for it twice, once at the pump, once at tax time. It isn't as simple as somebody deciding to raise the price for control and profit. OPEC definitely does that, but they do not control the entire market. Thing is, eventually we will have to move past these kinds of power sources, and when one cost is too much, another product or method will become cheaper, more economically feasible, so then it will replace the current method. The higher oil prices get, the more feasible some solution that we may not quite know about becomes. That will then replace the current system, making it obsolete. That is how the world is, and how it likely will be for a long time. Communism was all about control, including price controls, but without incentives, production stagnates. The free market give incentives to produce, invent, and improve. The free market draws out the alternatives when the regular is no longer feasible. High cost forces change, and manipulation can only go so far. We complain a lot here in the US< yet our fuel prices remain for the most part low in comparison to many places,. We are spread out more so that does cause more of an issue for us, but we did not develop decent mass transportation, but instead focused on individual transport. This was not economically sustainable, so it has led us to face the music now that the oil isn't so cheap. I'm not happy about the fuel prices, but I also know better than to go looking for a scapegoat on it, but realize it is basic economics that drives much of it, with a few twists turned in. Actually, economics shows that high prices are bad in the long run, as it leads to the solutions I mention.

 

Japan had Imperial ambitions in China long before Mao, and China wasn't "Communist" until Mao finally defeated the Kuomintang in 1948.

The Road to Pearl Harbor: The United States and East Asia, 1915-1941 | EDSITEment

The "government" doesn't make a profit. US economic interests are (often) reinforced (at a price human and financial) by its relationships in the ME. The US gets it's currency (the "petrodollar") as the standard oil trading currency, and gets Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Emirates as clients who support oil flow from the region. Saudi Arabia has offered to help offset the losses caused by any blockage of the Strait of Hormuz, and a pipeline to route around the Strait is in the works. There is no "Free Lunch".

The US is not in a position to CONTROL prices rather than influence them because OTHER countries COMPETE for influence. Americans seem to have forgotten "maps" nowadays, but there was good reason they used to teach geography in school.

Saudi Oil Chief Pledges to Offset Shortfalls - ABC News

Google the term "petrodollar" for more on that subject and so this doesn't turn into a political thread.

Bottom line:
Want your fuel bill to hurt less? Get creative and choose whatever your situation allows. Big trucks are great fun, I have several, but they don't roll unless they have good reason to. Toys aren't "survival", and for work vehicles the customer needs to understand they don't run on rainbows and pixie dust.

 

No. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor AFTER the US did the embargo. NOT BEFORE!

Japan and America were allies during WW1 but after the war was over, Americaa, USSR, and Britian became Superpowers BUT they didn't make Japan a Superpower. They basically blew Japan off whicnh disrespected the Japanese. This led to some tension between the US and the other Superpowers and Japan.

The oil companies do have some say over the price as well, if not they wouldn't be in business.

 

Their "say" is what they bid for product and charge the customer for product. Since there are many oil companies and many refineries, that's "influence", not a "position to dictate". If the market price, driven by competition, rises, then they can charge more for what they extract, but will also pay more for what they purchase to refine or distribute and resell.

List of oil exploration and production companies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

World Oil Refineries List

That's why I posted

The Road to Pearl Harbor: The United States and East Asia, 1915-1941 | EDSITEment

to correct the previous poster.
The only global power after WW1 was Britain. Russia LOST it's portion of WW1 to Germany and signed the treaty of Brest-Litovsk. The Central Powers caved in shortly thereafter, but since the Russian Revolution of 1917 was followed by the Russian Civil War, Russia was in bad shape for many years. US intervention in the Civil War was brief and useless, but it should be remembered that the US was actually the first to provoke a squabble between the Commies and ourselves.

The National Archives | Exhibitions & Learning online | First World War | Aftermath

The US wasn't even close. Neither Japan or the US were "superpowers" in any sense of the word after the Great War. Japan was never a global power, but was strong in the East even before WW1 after thrashing Russia on land and sea in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905.

The US became a "superpower" in consequence of the massive military and economic benefits from the Second World War. Russia later caught up, but they had lost more than twenty million people in WWII and had sustained severe infrastructure damage.

Now the US is the only "global" military power, though China is an economic global power. No one other than the US can do serious global force projection, and it is extremely expensive so no one else needs to bother with it.

 

Watch this video.

The Hitler Speech They Don't Want You To Hear - YouTube

http://youtu.be/0o5lN_3gSGI


My point with this is how it seems our country is getting into other countries business and making them mad and it will affect our economy which it has. We got involved in the Middle East ans ever since then it's got bad for us. Now, our country is being pushed by Israel and even 99.5% of our Government wants to fight Iran. This will lead to them making gas higher and worse problems than there are now!

I say leave the Middle East and let them do as they please, until they come on our land and invade us for no reason, then we should stay out of it and worry about this country, the people and jobs and eliminating the drug cartel, etc.

 

I can't disagree that our government has caused it's share of trouble, heck Iran is our own creation indirectly. We supported the current government at the time it took power, now we have to deal with them. We supported Castro when he went for power, look what that got us. It hasn't always been about oil though, as it used to be so plentiful, there was no reason to fight over it. The restriction on oil supply didn't show up more into the 70's or so. The oil usage also was much lower.

 

The oil usuage was lower then because the population isn't as high as it is now. There are wayyyy more people in America and the world now than it was in the 70s.

Countries economies are on the hope of vehicles which use fuel even in South America.

Oil is one thing though but power also.

As Hitler pointed out, Roosevelt and the American government made everyone else look bad yet they make them look innocent and that laws weren't meant for them.

I mean look at it today. I didn't join the service because I just don't like how this country is turning. I do work though and pay my taxes. But me fighting for this government and how it is...only making the working people suffer more while the Government does as it pleases..it's crazy.
We will possibly move out of Afganistan since we got them all pissed at us now. I mean dude, the Muslims are respectful as long as you respect them. I don't agree with things as they do as they don't agree with how I do. That's why I don't want to cause problems with them until they attack us for no reason but the reasons they are mad at us is because what our government does and from a media report, I've seen an Afganistan man say that it's not all the American people to blame but the Americaan government.

But as I said, we will possibly leave Afganistan then we will follow Israel into Iran and hold Israel's hand. No one wants Iran to have NUKES and our government and Israel tells them how to run their country and tell them not to make a nuke or they will attack YET most of the rest of the world has them and even have threaten to attack America (Cuba, USSR-Russia now, etc). This is going to cause a big problem and this time America will face a country with an Air Force, Army, Navy, etc...they won't be fighting no Arabs who just are carrying a couple of RPGs and Ak-47s. Many think Iran isn't nothing BUT you nor I know what Iran is capable of just as the French and Americans found out in Vietnam.

If we go to war with Iran then this will possibly bring in the whole world and that means you will be parting your truck and cars and possibly be drafted to war.

No more shooting from a base at a mountain. This time you will be fighting an enemy who possibly has about the same military equipment as you (tanks, jets, etc).


Expect to see gas go up and more of the government not carrying and more of the Cartel controlling more.


WATCH THIS

http://youtu.be/9OYY5doGI2g

http://youtu.be/XKCc5SYCisQ

By the way, this guy is a Jew converted to Christianity.

 

Best to ditch the political bits or the thread will get deleted.

Military discussion isn't off limits.

Iran doesn't have the Soviet Union and China backing it with a massive logistics and advisory effort. At the same time the US was engaged in Viet Nam it had a vastly more important commitment to keeping the Red Army from crashing through the Fulda Gap. NATO mattered far more than all of Asia, let alone one backwater.

It wouldn't hurt you to study some military history. The French got beaten on the battlefield. The US lost interest in supporting the worthless South Vietnamese government since wasting a bunch of effort for a trivial country wasn't worth it. (Now the US and VN are friends anyway, and the Vietnamese even fought a short war AGAINST China when it's traditional enemy (as in "for hundreds of years") got froggy. See "Sino-Vietnamese War".

That's unsupported babble. The "whole world" doesn't give a Shiite about Iran, and even its neighbours including KSA and the Gulf Emirates consider themselves threatened by it. They aren't buying billions of dollars in weapons and support equipment from the US for parades...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...013001477.html

Assassination plot? Why Iran and Saudi Arabia are such bitter rivals - CSMonitor.com

Those nice bases full of pre-positioned equipment the US used in Desert Storm were paid for by KSA to help defend it against both the Soviets and Iran.

That's actually easier to destroy in many cases. Nation-state war is much different from unconventional war. The US military has essentially been at war since 1990. It practised deployment to the Middle East for DECADES prior to that. The way to negate jets is to kill them in their HAS or force them to disperse to escape initial attack then kill them as they pop up. Tank destruction is something the US is very good at, and it bears mentioning that just because Iran "has tanks" doesn't mean they can concentrate them and have them survive to fight effectively. They certainly can't swim the Gulf to reach US forces massing to attack. Missiles, sensors, UAVs, and many other systems are vastly improved over 22 years ago.

War would, as with the Gulf War, take an enormous military effort to win, but it's certainly winnable.