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  #1  
Old 03-06-2012, 09:22 AM
ArtsBest ArtsBest is offline
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CNG IN F-150????

I wondered when this was going to take hold but now that the world over is finally realizing higher gas prices are a "given" with the larger emerging countries, China and India, trading in their scooters for cars will Ford render a factory installed gas/CNG compatible truck as Dodge (Ram 2500) and GM (Silverado/Sierra 2500) are about to? Right now natural gas prices are at 10 yr LOWS, 2.375 MMBtu as I type here. A comparable gallon of CNG would go for about $1/gallon. A home that has a natural gas line feed can even buy a "refueller" that downloads CNG at about a 1 gallon/hour rate. One would not even have to leave their friendly confines to fuel their vehicle. The government has backed off on tax credits allowed to purchase/install one of these devices but I think that will change very quickly. The Obama Administration, from what I read, is going to announce major tax incentives for one to burn CNG or LNG in their vehicles in the very near future. What's not to like here? Except I can't get any quotes from GM nor Chrysler as to HOW MUCH this CNG option from the factory will cost. A very important stat that must be considered before one weighs in on this CNG technology.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:19 PM
cficare cficare is offline
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What's not to like here?
How about alternative methods for taxing your road usage since you won't be paying gasoline/diesel fuel taxes, and feeding the public coffers?

CNG has been around a long time among fleets, and most vehicles can be equipped to operate on both gasoline & CNG. I remember looking into CNG in the early 1980s because of some hype over it being around 130 octane. Decided against it because like electric recharging, pressurizing an onboard fuel tank takes a fair amount of time ... which might be OK around town, not so much on long distance trips.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Phity Five Phity Five is offline
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I was just reading two articles this week, one regarding the GM platform and the other on the Ram.... was a little disappointed not to see the blue oval out front on this, but just got my Eco last month, so I wouldnt be buying anyway.

One article speculated $6000 premium for the GM which will be converted ex-factory at a dedicated facility, while the Ram is factory inline. GM offering commercial AND retail, while Ram is fleet buyers only.

Ram 370-ish mile range with 8 gallon petrol tank. GM was 400-ish miles with no reference to petrol tank... apparently petrol is needed to start the motor and bring to "temp", when CNG will kick-in.

Got my eye open on multiple fuel type filling station for a piece of property I own, as there are only 16 CNG fueling stations in Michigan, so if this kinda thing takes off in popularity (starting even with Fleet use), infrastructure development along the lines of distribution and dispensing could be a new boon.

Anyway...

Brian
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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Moving to general automotive.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:29 AM
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Moving to general automotive.
Maybe this one should go to the Alternate Fuels and Mileage forum?

Anyway, readers who are interested should read some of the threads over there for more information about CNG. My family is on its fourth CNG car now. Home refuelling is hype that is neither practical nor cheap. One half gallon per hour is the fill rate and the machine stops working at 6000 hours for a $2000 rebuild. The cost of electricity to run it is not trivial, more than the cost of the gas in some parts of the country. In order for CNG to work, you need to have fleet-like driving patterns. IF you have a CNG station nearby it works great. Filling is just like gasoline or diesel and costs about half. Even the pump looks the same, just the hose end fitting is different.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:33 AM
ArtsBest ArtsBest is offline
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$6K is still too high IMHO however there will be tax CREDITS available which reduces the cost dollar for dollar. If you have a tax liability that is. I have a CNG station about 2 blocks away from me. But would also consider a home refueling kit. The latest being a system that refills at one gallon per hour. Also a tax credit (currently $1K) allowable with this technology.

I’m very surprised Ford is not associating themselves with this technology. Very surprised. Maybe the CEO’s new $55M bonus package should be spent elsewhere within Ford Motors????
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:38 AM
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Filling is just like gasoline or diesel and costs about half.. So true but much, much less if one refuels from one's home. My current natural gas cost is the equivalent to $1 per gallon gasoline. If major tax incentives come into play here this technology will be more mainstream. For the only language people adhere to are monetary ones.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:30 PM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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Residential electric rates here are as high as $.27/kwh and unlike electric car recharging, compressing gas as a motor fuel does not qualify for special treatment. You have to add electric cost to the cost of gas, plus $.67 an equivalent gallon for use of the device itself ($2000 per 3000gal).
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:37 PM
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$6K is still too high IMHO however there will be tax CREDITS available which reduces the cost dollar for dollar. If you have a tax liability that is. I have a CNG station about 2 blocks away from me. But would also consider a home refueling kit. The latest being a system that refills at one gallon per hour. Also a tax credit (currently $1K) allowable with this technology.

Iím very surprised Ford is not associating themselves with this technology. Very surprised. Maybe the CEOís new $55M bonus package should be spent elsewhere within Ford Motors????
I thought you get a $5000 tax credit on the purchase of a new vehicle with a factory dedicated CNG system installed. Ford used to sell Crown Vics with the system. Of course that car platform is out of production. Hybrids and electrics are where the major automakers are investing for the most part. CNG is treated only as a niche market for fleets.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:00 PM
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We use fleet CNG at the base where I work. The HUGE recharging bank fills in several stages. The highest pressure during the fill is about 4500 PSI. It takes about 5 minutes to fill the tank.

This vehicle runs exclusively on CNG. When it's out, you're done. The only place in my location with a CNG station is on base. Consequently, this vehicle stays mainly on base. We use a van on E85 to make longer trips. I can run on any grade of gas.

The CNG van has plenty of power, but a significantly shorter range.

We also had a problem with it. Started idling roughly. Took it to the dealership, and waited over a month to get it fixed. Parts are NOT off the shelf, and take time to get. Even once we had it returned, it never idled as good as it initially did, but ran fine otherwise.

The fuel tank hung a little lower than the original gas tank, just forward of the rear bumper. Hate to hit the tank!

"I" wouldn't own one personally.

The E85 vehicle at work runs better than the CNG one. It is harder to start in cold weather, and has a distinctive alcohol odor. But the fuel economy is worse than E10 fuel.

I lose about 4MPG hwy and city on E85 in my F150, but the engine runs strong. The distance to empty gauge doesn't like E85... kept updating with worse predictions! 12 miles to home, said I had ~50 miles or so remaining. The numbers dropped to less than half of its original guess, so I filled up with E10 before getting on the hwy.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:00 PM
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