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  #1  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:57 PM
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C6 ---> E4OD (Swap Questions)

I've been searching for a swap thread, but so far I've only found auto to manual swaps. I know it has been done, I just can't seem to find it. Links to a swap are welcome as well, not trying to clutter the place up.

I'm looking at putting an E4OD into my '86 F250 4x4 in place of the C6. Not that there is anything wrong with the C6, but I want overdrive and I'll be darned if I'm going to pay $3300+ for a GV unit. My questions are:

Obviously I need a trans controller/harness...

Can I use my existing manual transfer case from the C6, or is the case that mounts to the E4OD different? Where does the VSS mount, in the aft-end of the T-Case, or the rear end (I have a 10.25 Sterling)? Do I need different drive-shafts, and is the cross-member different for the E4OD?

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Old 02-29-2012, 10:01 PM
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id just find a donor truck, probably make it all alot easier and less frustrating.....but if you dont i have a e4od driveshaft ill hook ya up with lol
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:07 PM
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On an '86 you don't have a VSS, it's a mechanical speedo cable. Not sure whether it's ran off the tranny or transfer case on the 4wd's off hand, I can't recall.

Your transfer case should bolt right up, but I think the E40D is a bit longer, and uses different shifter linkage for the transfer case.

You'll also need the transmission control module (TECA) and related wiring, or to add in an aftermarket tranny controller. There was one discussed on here awhile back that someone bought, and were quite happy with.

BTW, you also need to make sure it's a diesel E40D, as the bellhousing were different from gas to diesel. I think it also has to be IDI, and not powerstroke.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91dirtydiesel View Post
id just find a donor truck, probably make it all alot easier and less frustrating.....but if you dont i have a e4od driveshaft ill hook ya up with lol
Haha, I'll definitely let you know. Nice truck BTW, love the red and white. A donor truck... well, I don't have the room for one, and I'd rather just use parts then kill a truck just to get a trans setup out of it. I'm looking at a couple of setups on the old List of Craig's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywynd View Post
On an '86 you don't have a VSS, it's a mechanical speedo cable. Not sure whether it's ran off the tranny or transfer case on the 4wd's off hand, I can't recall.

Your transfer case should bolt right up, but I think the E40D is a bit longer, and uses different shifter linkage for the transfer case.

You'll also need the transmission control module (TECA) and related wiring, or to add in an aftermarket tranny controller. There was one discussed on here awhile back that someone bought, and were quite happy with.

BTW, you also need to make sure it's a diesel E40D, as the bellhousing were different from gas to diesel. I think it also has to be IDI, and not powerstroke.
Right, I have the mechanical drive speedometer, and I believe it's run off the t-case, but I was wondering if the VSS goes in the same place on the transfer case for the later E4OD setup or the rear end, and if the one I have can be made to work. The trans controller, I would go with the after market Opti-Shift (Baumann unit), as my buddy has one (the older style) and loved it on his 4L60E before he converted it to manual.

As for the bell housings, I thought the IDI and the PS housings were the same, and that the block plate was different?

The cross-member is my other concern...
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:43 PM
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I did the e4od zf5 swap so I have a few odds and ends left over that might work for ya ?
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 91dirtydiesel View Post
I did the e4od zf5 swap so I have a few odds and ends left over that might work for ya ?
I'll definitely let you know. Right now I'm trying to find out the specifics and source a trans...
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:50 PM
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Snaponpfrofile might have a tranny, he did zf swap too
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2012, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91dirtydiesel View Post
Snaponpfrofile might have a tranny, he did zf swap too
Nice. There is a guy somewhat local that has a trans, case and a 7.3 engine as well, which, would be good to drop in my truck while I rebuild the 6.9.

At least that's the plan. I'm waiting to hear back from him...
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:12 AM
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David85 used an aftermarket standalone controller. It was north of $600 but after tracking down everything you need it may not be too different in price. The aftermarket controller also has the benefit of adjustable shift scheduels.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:46 PM
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Baumann TCS The OptiShift Transmission Control System The existing transfer case will bolt up to the E4OD, However you'll need to modify or get different drive shafts due to the E4OD being longer. The speedometer can be driven by your transfer case yet. The VSS is located in the rear axle. If yours doesn't have a sensor on the top, you'll need to swap to a newer axle with the tone ring and sensor. You'll need to move the trans crossmember back a few inches to match the new trans mount location. You'll need to convert to a TPS on your IP instead of the VRV as well, and shifting linkages may be different.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swooshcmk View Post
Baumann TCS The OptiShift Transmission Control System The existing transfer case will bolt up to the E4OD, However you'll need to modify or get different drive shafts due to the E4OD being longer. The speedometer can be driven by your transfer case yet. The VSS is located in the rear axle. If yours doesn't have a sensor on the top, you'll need to swap to a newer axle with the tone ring and sensor. You'll need to move the trans crossmember back a few inches to match the new trans mount location. You'll need to convert to a TPS on your IP instead of the VRV as well, and shifting linkages may be different.
There is no VSS that mounts in the t-case? I remember on my Explorer back a few years, the VSS was mounted in the t-case, and the speedometer cable was driven off of that. IIRC, same deal on the '90s F150's... Don't they use the same transfer case as the heavier trucks? That would kind of suck to have to swap the rear end just for a sensor.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyfordfloored View Post
There is no VSS that mounts in the t-case? I remember on my Explorer back a few years, the VSS was mounted in the t-case, and the speedometer cable was driven off of that. IIRC, same deal on the '90s F150's... Don't they use the same transfer case as the heavier trucks? That would kind of suck to have to swap the rear end just for a sensor.
89-91 T cases use a VSS speedo cable combo.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyfordfloored View Post
There is no VSS that mounts in the t-case? I remember on my Explorer back a few years, the VSS was mounted in the t-case, and the speedometer cable was driven off of that. IIRC, same deal on the '90s F150's... Don't they use the same transfer case as the heavier trucks? That would kind of suck to have to swap the rear end just for a sensor.
On my 86' C6 the speed sensor is on the driver side of my tranny.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:04 PM
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Ok, a few things.

Yes, there is a VSS on some trucks in 1986 at the transmission or transfer case end of the speedometer cable - this was used back then for the automatic speed control and it is the same unit used in the 89-91 trucks that were factory equipped with E4ODs. After 1992, the rear ABS sensor on the differential was used to supply signals to the speedometer, odometer, speed control AND ABS.

Drive shafts will have to be changed, since the E4OD is much longer than a C6 (remember, an E4OD is internally a C6 with an overdrive added at the input and a much more complex valve body which is electronically controlled).

Shift linkage is close enough to work. However, the lever that actually connects to the arm on the side of the transmission will have to be either lengthened or replaced - again, due to the fact that the E4OD is longer.

The cross member could probably be reused, but I just took the one from the donor truck. In either case, the transmission mount needs to be moved back.

Cost was not be significantly lower than buying a GV overdrive in my case, but if I were to take out the few mistakes, it could probably be done for $2000. Keep in mind, I did not merely swap in a used transmission of unknown history, instead I bought a used one, rebuilt it, (then had to rebuild it again since it had the wrong bell housing) then put it in the truck. It took time again after that to get it working right. That included the cost of a new billet torque converter and new baumaun TCS.

In my case, I wanted as low a cruising RPM as possible, so although a GV overdrive offers 6 theoretical forward gears, the final drive ratio of a C6 with auxiliary overdrive will never compare to the top gear ratio of an E4OD.

Not only is the GV overdrive ratio less than the E4OD, but the C6 does not have a locking torque converter, so that slip will add on top.

I personally wouldn't bother with the OEM control setup, since there are more things to go wrong with them. I've had VERY minor issues with my baumaun TCS over many years. Even when something did go wrong, it was never expensive or time consuming to fix. Tech support was also excellent (but also rarely needed).
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David85 View Post
Ok, a few things.

Yes, there is a VSS on some trucks in 1986 at the transmission or transfer case end of the speedometer cable - this was used back then for the automatic speed control and it is the same unit used in the 89-91 trucks that were factory equipped with E4ODs. After 1992, the rear ABS sensor on the differential was used to supply signals to the speedometer, odometer, speed control AND ABS.

Drive shafts will have to be changed, since the E4OD is much longer than a C6 (remember, an E4OD is internally a C6 with an overdrive added at the input and a much more complex valve body which is electronically controlled).

Shift linkage is close enough to work. However, the lever that actually connects to the arm on the side of the transmission will have to be either lengthened or replaced - again, due to the fact that the E4OD is longer.

The cross member could probably be reused, but I just took the one from the donor truck. In either case, the transmission mount needs to be moved back.

Cost was not be significantly lower than buying a GV overdrive in my case, but if I were to take out the few mistakes, it could probably be done for $2000. Keep in mind, I did not merely swap in a used transmission of unknown history, instead I bought a used one, rebuilt it, (then had to rebuild it again since it had the wrong bell housing) then put it in the truck. It took time again after that to get it working right. That included the cost of a new billet torque converter and new baumaun TCS.

In my case, I wanted as low a cruising RPM as possible, so although a GV overdrive offers 6 theoretical forward gears, the final drive ratio of a C6 with auxiliary overdrive will never compare to the top gear ratio of an E4OD.

Not only is the GV overdrive ratio less than the E4OD, but the C6 does not have a locking torque converter, so that slip will add on top.

I personally wouldn't bother with the OEM control setup, since there are more things to go wrong with them. I've had VERY minor issues with my baumaun TCS over many years. Even when something did go wrong, it was never expensive or time consuming to fix. Tech support was also excellent (but also rarely needed).
That explains it, my truck has the automatic speed control. I always thought that was a fairly rare option on the 80's Diesels.

I picked up my setup today. '93 7.3L with the E4OD and t-case, which I probably won't be using as my original one is fine. Actually got the front half of the frame with it as well, cross-member and all. Also the front drive shaft came with the deal, but, the truck it came out of had a Dana 60 (F350) and I have a Dana 50 TTB due to mine being an F250HD. The fluid in the trans looked perfect, and the drivetrain had 87k miles on it. It was parted do to it being used as a plow truck (frame rust), however, there was an aftermarket transmission cooler on it. I think I'm going to take my chances and just drop it in. I can always pull it back out.

I'll be using the Baumann unit.

I appreciate your input; nice to hear from someone that's done the conversion.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:35 PM
 
 
 
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