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1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Early Eighties Bullnose Ford Truck

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  #1  
Old 02-25-2012, 06:57 PM
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351C And 351M Parts Interchange

I recently bought an 83 4x4 to do a rebuild on my mud truck. Was told that the pickup had a 351M. Bought some parts to fit an "M" and the thing turned out to be a "C". (kicking myself for not searching the original part number on the intake to make sure) I know the intake wont fit thats how i figured it out in the first place but i have a brand new cam and lifters for it and was curious if it would work in this engine. i have been searching around and some parts list the 351c, 351m and the 400 as the same camshaft and others dont. so now im not sure where to go with it. to return the cam or what to do with it.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:20 PM
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The sticky in the 335 forum here has got some good stuff in it, I particularly like Bubba's stuff.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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Go to a place like Summit Racing, and look up a cam for one of these engines. Since they are aftermarket, they usually list all the engines that a certain cam will fit. You don't have worry about your particular cam, just look up any cam they have and if they cross over, then yours should swap.

For instance I do know for a fact that the 351c, 351m, 400, and I think also the 429 and 460 distributors are all the same. I have seen that before on their website when looking up distributors.

I also know the heads will swap from a 351c/351m and 400. Some of the components on the front of the engine will swap also.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:56 PM
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Great Suggestion Dave. This Lunati is listed for a 351C/351M/400M

Lunati 00093LK - Lunati Bracket Master II Cam and Lifter Kits - Application - SummitRacing.com
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:26 PM
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i bought an edelbrock performer plus cam for the 351m and edelbrock doesnt show one for the 351c they only show the performer rpm. yet comp shows cams to fit all 3.. i think it will work.. thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:27 PM
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Are you sure the motor is a 351C and not 351W? Trucks built in 1982+ should have 351W, except for a select few 1982 trucks that received the 400.

The 351C, 351M, and 400 are all similar, where the 351W is a completely different motor than the others.

If you can, post a picture of your valve covers so we can see what it really is for you.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:35 PM
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take a look at the front of the motor. The Cleveland engines have an integral timing chain cover to the block...not separate like on all other ford V8's...wish they all were like that. The top radiator hose connects directly to the block as well and not the intake. The Cleveland uses a "dry intake manifold".

also as stated above...the cleveland valve covers are square...windsor are rounded. Cleveland uses 8 bolts on the valve cover where I think the windsors use 6
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:13 PM
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im sure it is a "c".. the water neck does not run into the intake manifold.. and i think that is what threw everyone off.. but even in 83 the "m" wasnt an option. The vin says it came out with a windsor.. i originally thought it was a cleveland but a few people got me to believing it was a modified..
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bars13stars View Post
im sure it is a "c".. the water neck does not run into the intake manifold.. and i think that is what threw everyone off.. but even in 83 the "m" wasnt an option. The vin says it came out with a windsor.. i originally thought it was a cleveland but a few people got me to believing it was a modified..
Well there's only about five ways you can tell the difference between a 351C/351M/400.

1. Deck height of a 351C is lower than a 351M/400
2. 351C's do not have the intake surface extension section that sticks out from the intake gasket surface
3. The thermostat housing/distributor surface is slightly different on a 351C than it is on a 351M/400
4. Casting Numbers may be different between 351C and 351M/400 parts
5. The crankshaft on a 351M is visually different than the one in a 400.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:47 AM
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Another thing to keep in mind is the Cleveland uses a small block bellhousing and the "M" engines use a big bock bellhousing. While this may not be the easiest thing to determine from a quick look, if your truck had a small block engine to start with there is a fair chance that only the engine was swapped. I would check with the cam manufacturer to see if the parts fit. I know the pushrod length will be different. Having a Cleveland is not a bad thing, I put one in my truck, not as much low end torque as I would like but powerful. On the top corner of the cylinder head just outside of the valve cover, there should be a number or letter cast telling you whether it is a "2", "4", or "M" head. Here is some good info:
Cleveland -- The Ford V-8 Engine Workshop
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:16 PM
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To see the difference between a cleveland and an M measure across from one head mounting surface to the other on the front of the engine. From the bottom corner of each head in the valley it will be 7" if it's a C and 8.5" if it's an M. Also the casting numbers for the block are above and behind the starter. Hard to see but it can be done without removing it. If it's a cleveland it should read D0AE, D1AE, D2AE, D3AE or D4AE. I think they were only made from 70-74. If you have an M block you can tell if it's a 351 or 400 by measuring the stroke through the spark plug hole. 3.5" for the 351 and 4" for the 400.

I have a Cleveland in my 81, it surprised me. Good luck finding headers that fit.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:59 PM
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i figured this out the hard way.. bought an intake for an "m". went to put it on and the gaskets wouldnt fit.. so tried to set the intake down and have a look and it wouldnt fit either.. so im now trying to get the intake and gasket set sold.. and i dont think headers will be much of a problem.. with the body lift and being built for off road there are ways around getting them to fit..
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:41 AM
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Another question.. would my borg warner t19 trans that is on a 302 fit this cleveland or will I have to find another bell housing?
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:29 AM
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From what I've read, the 351 shares the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the other small block fords. So should be good
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:43 AM
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Looking on line at summit at their Edelbrock cams....they do show different cams for the 351/400M and the 351C. the durations and lifts are completely different.

351C has significantly more lift and duration then what they show for the 351/400M. So it may be a matter of different profiles for those motors. The one you have seems to be a much more mild grind (Duration 282/292, Lift .484/.510 for the "M" as opposed to Duration 312/322, Lift .562/.588 for the "C")

So not sure it wouldn't work from a fit up stand point...

I think at this point...I would take it back and get what you know if for the cleveland engine.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:43 AM
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