Guys, I was at rv.net under tow vehicle section, and I found a very heated debate about additives causing damages, rather than helping, HPFP.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/25794401.cfm

I was planning on using some additives to protect my F350 Dually when it arrives in few weeks, but I'm not sure what to do now. What do you guys think?

 

use pm 22 will not cause damage. its a ford product and works well. IMO anyway.

 

cheezit, what is the difference between motorcraft pm 22 and pm 22A? Is it the same thing? Secondly, I read somewhere that pm 22 is really tested on the previous PSD, but not on current 6.7L. Do you know of any pm 22 test data on current PSD 6.7L?

 

pm22a is the same pm22 is the old name and with the a its now good in al 50 states. the pm 22 came to be befor the 6.4 as well.
no direct testing of of pm 22 on the 6.7 that I know of.
your issue is you need to get the ratings up on pump fuel, doing so will decress you likly hood of issues later on. thats just my opinion from what I see every day.

 

Cheezit so Pm22A is recommended for the 6.7?

 

refer to the owners guide for that info. IMO if it wa my truck I would be adding something and pm22a is a good choice because it is a motorcraft product, it also seems to work pretty well on prior year engines.

 

Rickatic used no additives.

 

The rv.net post is someones opinion based on what they read somewhere. I have no way of knowing whether his statements are credible or not and I didn't see where he pointed to where he got the information. I will continue to use my additives.

 

Well, some here would like to dismiss the discussion being held at Rvnet as mindless ramblings of idiots or malcontents. They do not know the men they deride or their credentials. These men hold multiple Master's and Doctoral degrees in the very disciplines being researched. They also hold PHD's in other engineering fields. Their email addresses and signatures, and yes I have them, are an alphabet of MS and PHD's.

Their work has only just begun in researching the effects of certain petroleum distillates and associated additives on the high stress parts of mechanicals like HPFP's. Early results have shown a solubility problem with DLC coatings that was unknown until late 2009. This discovery, along with the visible damage to the pump from my truck, looks like the direction of the research is viable. Add in the already verified poor fuel quality in the US and it causes concerns among some members here.

I would run the Ford crutch, PM22A, as a lubricity hedge and enjoy the truck...it is what I do...

Regards

 

Come on Rick, all you do anymore is turn every conversation you join into some evil conspiracy regarding ULSD and how we are all doomed to the unfortunate issues you had with Ford. You stating or someone simply putting credentials in their signature does not make it true (I am not saying anyone is putting false claims either). I have learned a lot from you in the past over the years and really respect your body of knowledge. I wish you would just move on and become objective again.

Ironically, I happen to be both an MBA and a PhD. The whole basis of a PhD is research. In that research we do not focus on one result or another, we only care about how the answer is derived and whether others can peer review and validate our research. This is how we gain credibility or not in our respective fields of research. Given that, I am not dismissing anyone discussion nor have I ever regarded anyone on these forums as "mindless ramblings of idiots or malcontents". I simply look for the evidence that can be reproduced from credible sources to form my opinion. That opinion, over time, may or may not become fact.

 

My comment was not directed at you. I was typing my post when you added your opinion. Those that fit the mentioned category of members here know who they are.

My post clearly states that the research is in the early stages. I did not take a stance in either direction as to where the research might take us. In previous posts, I have said that it may lead to a definition of the DLC coatings problem or it may lead nowhere. I do know that a highly regarded consultant who worked with Bosch on the DLC coatings for their HPFP's is involved with the current research.

My information on the solubility of DLC coatings by certain petroleum distillates is solid. The resarch has been completed and the results authenticated. The concerns over the ULSD fuel found in the US is also shown to be valid. Our lubricity standard of 520 scar is 12% below Bosch's stated standard of 460 scar. Ironically, the Canadian lubricity standard of 460 scar is identical to Bosch's published recommendation. Is it a coincidence that the Canadian market is seeing considerably lower Bosch HPFP failure rates than the US?

I know that many here would like me to return to my old pom pom routine...or disappear. Just when I begin to consider one of these options, I get several emails and PM's from many different people offering encouragement to continue in the face of personal attacks. I will continue to post relevant commentary as I see a need. It is always my opinion and others may not agree. I will not stoop the the levels of some with return personal attacks...but I will not be shouted down either.

Read my posts or don't...ignore me if you like...I will not mind at all.

My apologies for unknowingly stepping on your feelings. Not all of this was directed at you individually.

Regards

 

I dont have a masters or PHD, but what I have is a knowledge of what I see. 1 year now, and NO, yes, NO pump failures here. If they are so vulnerable, when will the failures start? 2 years, 3? Tech specific forums describe failures of misfueling, and severe water contamination. Still waiting on the first outright failure.

 

Man you have no idea what you are talking about! Just because you are on the frontlines of these trucks and have a vast network of other techs around the country telling you there are no failures is nothing compared to some RV guys and some "experts" on this site. They know exactly what is going on, not some Ford tech who works with the 6.7 everyday. Get real man.....

Rick, when did your theory change to the DLC coating on the pump? Also, after steering so many people away from buying the 6.7 and you also trying to dump this truck, when did you "enjoy" the truck again?

 

I spoke with my cousin recently a "Ford diesel tech for +20 years" who works at a Ford/Dodge dealership that it's total sales is ~ 90% trucks, which about half is diesels. These trucks are mostly sold to rancher's, farmers, and oil field type company's who typically don't really go out of there way to baby their truck. Their shop has yet to replace a 6.7 HPFP while they continue to replace 6.0 injectors and the occasional 6.4 HPFP/injectors. They even replaced a few Cummins 6.7 HPFP's already.

His comment was the 6.7 has been down right impressive so fare. (Too bad these people being steered away are not benefitting from this great truck).

 

vloney,
I believe we are waiting for RVnet.com to answer this question.