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  #91  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:59 PM
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Well, It's been forever since I have had an opportunity to touch the truck. I keep thinking about it though. Well today I checked the compression on 4 cylinders. On 1 and 2 I had only 55 lbs...dang on 5 and 6 it read about 50 double dang. So I went to O'Reilly's and borrowed one of theirs. Well that one didn't read anything. Dang again.

So, I'm thinking I have the following possibilities.
Bad seats on the valves
Cam lob timing off (Ross had that suggestion)
Head gasket issues (doubtful, but a possibility.)
Anything else?

I figure I will remove the valve covers and see how everything is moving. Then remove the heads and see if I can see anything going on.
Maybe I'm missing something simple.... I wonder if maybe I should start looking for a running y-block somewhere close.

Learning can be frustrating sometimes. Of course I won't be able to get back in the garage until probably Friday....
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1955 F-250 239 Y-Block
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  #92  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:28 PM
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Joe, squirt about a tsp of oil into each cyl and try it again. The oil will seal the rings to the cyl walls. Let it spin over at least 3 times as you check it. Post your results.
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  #93  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Well today I checked the compression on 4 cylinders. On 1 and 2 I had only 55 lbs...dang on 5 and 6 it read about 50 double dang.
So, I'm thinking I have the following possibilities.
Bad seats on the valves
Cam lob timing off (Ross had that suggestion)
Head gasket issues (doubtful, but a possibility.)
Anything else?

Learning can be frustrating sometimes. Of course I won't be able to get back in the garage until probably Friday....
An engine that has not run in years will not have compression near specifications. It will be hard to start with those numbers but it will run.

What Tinman said about the oil will help compression if it is just the rings.


Now a question: You did not disturb the timing chain when you had it exposed early in this thread did you? Pictures you posted of the chain did show considerable wear but so long as it has not jumped time, you're ok.

If I were starting in on the engine, knowing what we think we know, I believe I would pull the valve covers and all the plugs. A quick and cheap job. I would crank the engine over by hand making sure both valves on #1 are closed when the engine came up on #1 compression stroke. This will verify you have not jumped time. Next, pay attention that all push rods turn freely and straight when the valves are closed. This will verify you don't have stuck valves or bent pushrods.

Can anyone in the family remember why the truck was parked?

We're all rootin' for you and want to hear this thing run.
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  #94  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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The timing chain was not disturbed.

Ray, you suggestion was exactly what I was thinking.....well except you explained further how I would actually check the valves.

A buddy at work asked me the same question regarding why it was parked. I will bug my father in law this afternoon and see what he remembers....based on my latest IM conversation at work, maybe I should call in sick on Friday and recover in the garage.

Good to know that low of compression is not fatal.
I will verify that no push rods are bent. (They were fine when I had the heads off before the latest start attempts.) I now have something to focus on that I can understand...cool.
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  #95  
Old 06-23-2012, 01:32 PM
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Well, I got a chance to head out to the garage this morning and it is a little more promising.

I checked compression on all 8 cylinders then added oil to the cylinders and checked it again. Here are the results, #1 is something I did wrong.

Cylinder Before After
1 55/0 0
2 60 85
3 60 75
4 75 95
5 55 65
6 55 90
7 65 100
8 65 95

I was playing with valve lash on #1 and obviously I screwed it up. I will study that more and try it again. I'm having a hard time telling if I get exactly #1 TDC and question my ability to get TDC on all the other cylinders, but I will try it out one at a time.

After putting the oil in the cylinders it started spinning much better. When I first got the truck, once I got it free, I started hooking it up to the starter regularly and would spin it. I need to get back to that.

Before I did this I removed the intake and valley cover so I could see things better. Well I noticed stamped in the bottom ECG, but the outside of the block is EBV??? figure that one out. I also have one head EBV and one ECG.

I asked my wife if she knew why it was parked and she said "probably because it didn't run" Very helpful she is. I will ask her parents today (If I don't forget again.)
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  #96  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:40 PM
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I just undid the valve lash change on #1 that I played with and compression went up to 60. So that's good.
The engine is spinning freely now, but I'm not seeing oil making it up to the rockers. Is there a way to check to make sure oil is moving properly? The short amount of time I'm spinning the engine might not bring the oil all the way up there.

I'm tempted to put the intake and carb back on and try it out again. Is there anything wrong with trying to run it without the valve covers? Aside from maybe having a bit of a mess...

Of to take the youngest to see her grandpa. Grandma didn't know why the truck was parked, she just thought maybe to get something more reliable...
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  #97  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:59 PM
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If I remember right you have the Ford truck shop manual. Look at Part one, section five. There are instructions for a sequence to adjust the valves with one revolution of the engine.
And it will hurt nothing to run the engine with the valve covers off. In fact, that is how the final valve adjustment is made, sans covers and the engine running.
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  #98  
Old 06-23-2012, 10:50 PM
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Well, more good news. I adjusted the valve lash on #1 and it brought the compression up from 60 to 85. There was no measuring in the adjustment, so it can probably be improved upon.

Looking at ways to check all these I looked up James Eickmans Ford Y-Block book and this sounds straightforward:
"Make three chalk marks on the crankshaft damper. Space the marks ninety gegrees apart so that, with the top dead center timing mar, the damper is divided into four equal parts. ...
... Rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the number 1 piston is at TDC at the end of the compression stroke. ...Then adjust the following valves: #1 exhaust; #1 intake; #2 intake, #4 exhaust, #5 exhaust, #7 intake.
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise one-half turn. Number 4 piston should be at TDC. Adjust the following valves; #4 intake, #5 intake, #6 exhaust, #8 exhaust.
Next, rotate the crankshaft an additional 3/4 turn clockwise. Number 3 piston should be at TDC. Adjust the following valves; #2 exhaust, #3 intake, #3 exhaust, #6 intake, #7 exhaust, #8 intake."

Here is a thread on adjusting them as well with a couple of different measurements.
How to adjust the valves on a 292?? - THE H.A.M.B.

I also read that .019 gap is needed and to do that without a feeler gauge, tighten it down to zero and then back if on 1/4 turn. Someone did the math and that is what it worked out to be.

I seem to be stuck on valve lash. This may not solve all my problems, but I'm taking the opportunity to learn and hopefully have info for anyone else trying to do what I'm doing that has the same lack of knowledge on the topic.

I'm surprised that no one said "Hey dummy, if you remove the plugs the engine will turn easier, duh!" But I'm sure the oil helped anyway.
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  #99  
Old 06-24-2012, 08:41 PM
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Well I got a few minutes this afternoon and adjusted the valve lash. It was pretty easy with the instructions I listed above. I also used my feeler gauge instead of the 1/4 turn back. Seemed silly to use that method when I have a feeler gauge handy.

We it went smooth and I put a little more oil in the cylinders, ran it for a few seconds then ran the compression test again. Much better results:

Cylinder Before After oil After Valve Lash
1 55/0 0 125
2 60 85115
3 60 7595
4 75 95125
5 55 6585
6 55 90100
7 65 100105
8 65 95105

I think I have my timing correct, so now to try it out again.
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  #100  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:19 PM
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That's great Joe.....looking better all the time! It should have enough compression to start now.....Can't wait to hear it fire up!
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  #101  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:59 PM
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I have been watching Joe! Learning is all part of the process! Hang in there buddy!
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  #102  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:48 PM
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Well, last night I put the intake back on and tried to fire it up. Nothing! Before I rearranged the plug wires to be in what looks like the correct spot I at least got a few bangs.

So just now I went out to double check the timing and I was going to verify that there is spark to all 8 plugs. I put the engine at #1 TDC and verified that the rotor was at #1 and the wires go in the right order.

Well, here is one thing that doesn't look good. With the plugs back out I spun the engine. I noticed that oil would come out #4. That doesn't look good. It seems thin though, but there are no other fluids there. So, do I have a bad head gasket??? No it would probably be a bad ring? But I think I would still get some fire unless I'm not getting enough gas to the cylinders which could be an issue. I can pump gas as I crank it (with no power to the coil) and not much gas is flowing but I'm not sure how much should....how much should I see looking down the carb?

Thoughts from you experts? Anyone vacationing in beautiful California, Missouri soon?
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  #103  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:17 PM
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Don't worry about the oil coming from #4 right now. Remember, you put oil in the cylinders back in post #99. Pour a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb. No plans to come to Mo but if you want to haul that truck and come visit your brother, we'll put it in the shop and get 'er running.
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  #104  
Old 06-26-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytasch View Post
Don't worry about the oil coming from #4 right now. Remember, you put oil in the cylinders back in post #99. Pour a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb. No plans to come to Mo but if you want to haul that truck and come visit your brother, we'll put it in the shop and get 'er running.
Duh, I thought about the oil I put in but since none of the others were doing it I discounted that. Looking back at the compression #4 is the highest, so it must be the oil I put in. I've spun it a few more times and the oil seems to have stopped. Sometimes I'm not too bright.....

I will check to make sure all the plugs are getting spark and try it again (not sure when though...) I double checked the timing and at the mark #1 is at TDC and I have the plug wires in the right order. So that seems correct, it just bugs me that I got some fire when the plugs were in the wrong order but not now. I'm sure it's something very simple.

One thing I tried to do real quick tonight is once I got #1 at TDC I thought I would see that the next one was correct, but #5 was almost at the bottom of the stroke and #6 was almost at TDC at the timing mark. How should that look. Firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 Just another opportunity for me to learn more.....
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:16 PM
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OK, so I went back out after my run this evening after thinking about it for a bit. Let me explain it to make sure I have it correct and anyone else looking has the info handy.

The camshaft rotates twice to hit every cylinder on the compression stroke. It has to go up once for exhaust as well. If you mark the crankshaft damper like I did in post #98 for setting valve lash you can easily find TDC compression stroke for each cylinder. The timing mark it TDC for #1, then 90 Degrees later you will hit #5 compression stroke. Every 1/4 turn of the crankshaft will get you to the next cylinder. Again, Firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2. I checked the rotor when I was at #6 at it was in the right spot. So everything looks good there.

I checked for spark on all 8 plug wires and all seemed to get good spark.

So, I think this leaves fuel delivery. My carb is probably blocked in some way and not getting enough fuel to the cylinders. When I put the fuel line into the gas can and crank it it sucks gas up, so the pump is pulling it out of the gas can fine. One time I opened up the carb and the bowl had gas in it. It could be the needles are clogged, or adjusted poorly.
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